Transcript [00:00] Hi, it's Dan. Over the past couple of [00:02] years, Call Me Back has grown into [00:04] something much bigger than we ever [00:06] expected. A place for clarity, context, [00:08] and honest conversations. At a time when [00:11] those things can seem hard to find. [00:14] That's what Ark Media is all about. [00:16] Building a truly independent voice, [00:18] which means no one shaping what we say [00:21] or how we say it. To help support our [00:24] rapidly expanding operations, we created [00:27] Inside Call Me Back, our membersonly [00:29] feed. If Call Me Back has been [00:31] meaningful to you and you want to be [00:33] part of what we're building, I hope [00:35] you'll join us. Your contribution goes a [00:38] long way in helping us show up when it [00:40] matters most. You can subscribe at [00:43] arcdia.org or through the link in the [00:45] show notes. And to our insiders, thank [00:48] you. Welcome to Inside CallMe Back, our [00:51] membersonly edition where we open the [00:53] door and let you shape the conversation. [00:55] My name is Elan Benitar, the producer of [00:57] the Call Me Back podcast, and today in [00:59] the hot seat, addressing your questions [01:01] and personal dilemmas is my partner in [01:03] crime, Arc Media's very own Dan Senor. [01:07] Dan, welcome to the Inside. [01:09] >> How are you, Alain? [01:11] >> How am I? Do you really want to know? [01:12] >> I I don't want to know. Actually, that's [01:14] that was a bad question for me to ask. [01:16] Uh, let me just say it's good to see [01:18] you. [01:19] >> Thank you. Well, to those who are not [01:21] seeing me, I'm sitting here with the [01:23] sling. Uh, it's that's why I'm asking. [01:25] >> It's almost 10:00 a.m. and I did not [01:28] wake up for this recording because I was [01:30] under the influence of some very [01:31] powerful drugs. [01:32] >> I mean, it's prescription drugs, but [01:34] they're just very strong painkillers [01:37] because I have a shoulder thing that if [01:39] I don't take it, I don't [snorts] sleep. [01:41] And therefore, I had to take them and I [01:43] did not wake up for this session. So, [01:45] >> right. But here we are. [01:46] >> We are now. Here we are. Exactly. [01:48] >> But I promise to be coherent. Even if [01:50] Alain won't be, I promise to make up for [01:52] his for his lack of coherence. If there [01:54] is lack of coherence, I'm not saying [01:55] there will be. [01:57] >> I'm not trying to prejudge I'm not [01:58] trying to prejudge our our our um [02:01] >> highly medicated uh moderator this [02:04] morning. [02:04] >> Right. It's the first inside call me [02:06] back that's under the influence. Let's [02:07] put it up. [02:08] >> Exactly. [laughter] [02:10] That's funny. [02:10] >> Uh why don't I bring something uh from [02:12] from your past 24 hours? It was a big [02:15] day for the Senor family yesterday, [02:17] wasn't it? [02:18] >> Yeah, we sent our son off to Israel for [02:22] the year. Um, our oldest son who's doing [02:25] a gap year in Israel. It was [02:28] bittersweet. [02:30] Uh, I'm I'm, you know, I'm hearing from [02:32] all these families that are dropping [02:33] their kids off at college. It's very [02:37] emotional and these parents are talking [02:38] about this is like the first real [02:40] separation with kids. I don't feel that [02:43] way. You know, obviously our our son is [02:47] pursuing something uh very [02:48] independently. It's it's a choice he [02:50] made. Um but the fact that he's spending [02:53] a year in Israel is an expression of [02:55] that journey in a sense he's away and [02:58] yet it feels very much he feels very [03:00] much at home. [03:00] >> Well, okay, Dan. Well, let's jump into [03:02] the questions from our community. Evan [03:05] from Atlanta, Georgia asks, "Last week, [03:07] a listener asked, "Why shouldn't Israel [03:09] agree to having a Palestinian state [03:11] under conditions that Palestinians would [03:13] never agree to?" In his answer, Amit [03:16] mentioned Ben's one-state solution, [03:19] annexing the West Bank and Gaza. [03:22] Ironically, a one-state solution is what [03:25] the far-left argues for as well, albeit [03:28] with equal rights. Say what you will [03:31] about the extremes, they both offer some [03:34] kind of solution, while moderates both [03:36] in Israel and in the diaspora offer [03:39] none. Doesn't that passive position just [03:42] seed ground to the extremes who then [03:44] moderates complain about? Thank you, [03:46] Evan, for that. I I I'll say a couple [03:48] things. I think there's a tendency to [03:51] create some kind of equivalence between [03:54] the positions of the extremes on both [03:56] sides of the conflict in the region or [03:58] both sides between left and right. And [04:00] and while there is something to that, I [04:04] I think it ignores a very a very [04:06] important structural difference. What I [04:08] mean by that is I think both sides have [04:09] a tendency to point to the position of [04:11] the extreme and say that's why there's a [04:13] problem. The reason that that doesn't [04:15] really work structurally is because the [04:17] extremes don't tell you much. You need [04:18] to ask yourself where's the consensus? [04:20] Where's the consensus in in either side? [04:22] So if you look at historically the [04:25] consensus on the Israeli side on the [04:27] center left and the center right has [04:29] been for a two-state solution within a [04:33] series of conditions of course but for a [04:35] two-state solution to the Israeli [04:37] Palestinian conflict so long as this new [04:40] independent Palestinian state did not [04:42] pose a security threat to Israel. So [04:44] this has basically been where Israeli [04:46] society has been. find us an [04:48] interlocutor on the Palestinian side [04:51] that can deliver calm and stability and [04:54] and will help us ensure that a [04:56] Palestinian state will not pose a threat [04:58] to Israel. And you will be shocked by [05:02] how far Israelis are willing to go to [05:05] reach that kind of accommodation with [05:07] that interlocutor. There have been two [05:09] limitations that have always prevented [05:11] this from happening. one, there has been [05:13] no interlocutor who who either was [05:15] operating in good faith on the [05:16] Palestinian side or even if they were [05:18] operating in good faith and there have [05:20] been some actually they didn't have [05:21] enough political capital within [05:23] Palestinian society to deliver on those [05:26] commitments and so it's for a variety of [05:28] reasons including those but not only [05:30] those that's where things have broken [05:31] down I think where Israelis are now is [05:35] forget about where our consensus is the [05:36] Israelis will say where's the [05:38] Palestinian consensus so the Palestinian [05:41] consensus is not for a two-state [05:43] solution right now. Now, that could [05:44] change, but I'm just saying right now. [05:46] And so that that it's a structural [05:49] problem. It's like the extreme position [05:51] on the Palestinian side is the consensus [05:54] position. I don't believe the extreme [05:57] position on the Israeli side is the [05:59] consensus position. I think the Israeli [06:01] position generally has moved right [06:04] certainly post October 7th. But I don't [06:07] if you told the is the Israeli, you [06:09] know, the Israeli middle, there will be [06:12] there can and should be a Palestinian [06:14] entity that the Palestinians will accept [06:16] a sovereign entity, but it'll be [06:18] sovereignty minus. It won't be they [06:20] won't have total control of security [06:21] over the border. There will have to be [06:23] some kind of buffer. Uh Israel will not [06:25] have to rely on Palestinian security [06:27] forces to help protect its own security. [06:30] um this Palestinian state won't [06:31] necessarily have, you know, air, you [06:34] know, air superiority over over its [06:37] entity. Um there may be limitations on [06:39] whether or not this state has a has an [06:41] airport. So, it's not full sovereignty, [06:43] but it is some kind of independent [06:45] entity. You know, I think that's [06:48] probably where the Israeli middle is [06:49] now. Um but it's not these really middle [06:53] these really consensus which is what I [06:55] think you're going to see reflected in [06:56] this ne in the outcome of this next [06:57] election is just not where the extremes [06:59] are. The extremes get a lot of [07:00] attention. They get most of the [07:02] attention. They're the shiny object. But [07:04] I just don't think that's where the [07:05] Israeli consensus is. [07:06] >> But then this is what Evan is saying. [07:08] Evan is saying the middle solution is [07:11] saying there is no solution. [07:13] And you know we moved away from that [07:15] consensus that you spoke about. And he's [07:19] what he's arguing very effectively I [07:21] think is the only people who are coming [07:24] forth with a with a solution whether you [07:27] agree with it or don't agree with it are [07:30] the far left and the far right who are [07:32] both offering a one-state solution with [07:34] one big difference there are no voting [07:36] rights or there's no equal rights which [07:38] know what I I agree with you that most [07:41] Israelis would be horrified by he's what [07:44] he's asking doesn't that passive [07:46] position best seed ground to the [07:49] extremes who then moderates complain [07:51] about because if we don't have a [07:54] position you basically the only position [07:55] that's out there is a one-state solution [07:57] from either from the river to the sea or [08:01] annexation. So I think 30 40 days before [08:05] an election is the wrong time to ask the [08:07] question about where the Israeli [08:09] consensus is because on the questions [08:11] that are being debated in the election [08:13] they are boiled down to the most [08:15] simplistic most binary [08:18] um least nuanced [08:21] uh ways in which policy debates are [08:23] actually normally settled in the course [08:25] of governing. So I think I think if your [08:27] question is right now take a snapshot [08:29] [snorts] is basically every political [08:31] party that matters in Israel today [08:34] against a Palestinian state then the [08:36] answer to Evan is yes. I don't think [08:38] that's reflective. So so then fast [08:40] forward to a new government being formed [08:42] of the center left of the center right [08:44] or or some kind of national unity [08:46] government. If that government is [08:48] presented with the option that there [08:50] could be an independent Palestinian [08:52] quote unquote state that has that has [08:55] authority over civilian affairs, civil [08:57] affairs in that entity that um makes [09:01] some kind of consensus that Israel will [09:03] still be responsible for security at the [09:05] border and there'll be some buffer these [09:06] other conditions I laid out. But the [09:09] Palestinians having that kind of [09:10] independent entity and that entity would [09:14] would satisfy the Saudis and other [09:16] players in the region that Palestinian [09:18] self self-determination is being [09:20] addressed in some way and and that could [09:22] also lead to Saudi normalization with [09:24] Israel or meet that be one of the boxes [09:26] checked for that that the Saudis need. [09:29] Do I think that's where the Israeli [09:30] consensus would be and would be [09:32] acceptable to the Israeli consensus? I [09:34] think right now yes. But trying to ask [09:36] that question in the context of right [09:38] before an election and everything is [09:40] yes, no, and where do you stand on the [09:41] most simplest soundbite? It's not that's [09:43] not a serious way to like ask where the [09:45] Israeli public is. I think that the [09:48] answer to his question doesn't that [09:49] passive position see ground to the [09:51] extremes. The answer is probably yes [09:53] until maybe it becomes less politically [09:56] dangerous which is after the elections. [09:59] So, so I I I I I I can imagine a new [10:04] government laying out a pathway for some [10:06] Palestinian independence that will sound [10:09] like a quote unquote proposal or plan. [10:12] Not necessarily saying I'm for that [10:13] proposal or plan, but I can imagine a [10:15] new government going to Washington and [10:18] going to Brussels and going to Arab [10:21] capitals and say, "This is our vision [10:23] for a path to Palestinian uh [10:25] self-determination. This is what it [10:27] looks like. these are our conditions. [10:29] This is how we achieve it. Here's a [10:30] multi-year plan. I can imagine a f a new [10:34] government laying that out. And then I [10:35] think it it counters Evans concern that [10:39] no one's putting anything forward. Okay. [10:41] All right. Let's move on to Michelle [10:43] from Rochester, New York. Hi, Dan. I'm a [10:45] big fan of the show. Guys, you don't [10:47] need to qualify yourselves by saying [10:48] you're big fans of the show. We [10:50] >> We assume if you're if you're an [10:51] insider, you're you're a big fan of the [10:53] show, but it's always nice to hear. [10:55] >> It's always nice to hear. Yeah. So, I'm [10:56] not I'm not going to I'm not going to [10:58] deny. [10:59] >> Well, I'll put it this way. It doesn't [11:00] affect our choice. [11:02] >> It doesn't affect which questions we we [11:04] pick. [11:05] >> Yes. [11:05] >> Michelle from Rochester, New York, [11:07] writes, "Hi, Dan. I'm a big fan of the [11:09] show and I haven't missed an episode [11:11] since October 8th. In a recent episode [11:13] with Amit, another Amit episode, you [11:15] asked him what was the one thing he [11:19] changed his mind on." Amid gave a [11:21] sincere answer that he now thinks that a [11:24] purely right-wing government is a [11:26] mistake. The obvious follow-up never [11:28] came up, so I'll ask it myself. What is [11:31] one thing that you have changed your [11:33] mind on during this war? [11:35] >> It's a great question, Michelle, and uh [11:38] in a sense, I uh appreciate your not [11:41] letting me off the hook, although it was [11:44] very fun for me not to let a meat off [11:45] the hook. Um but I didn't realize you [11:47] turned the tables on me. Saul Singer and [11:50] I wrote this book called The Genius of [11:51] Israel about the health and strength of [11:53] Israeli society. [11:57] That's it for our sneak peek today. If [11:59] you want to catch the full episode, [12:00] please subscribe to Inside Call Me Back [12:03] by following the link in the description [12:05] or by going to arcdia.org. [music] [12:07] That's arkdia.org. [12:10] Your support is what allows us to do [12:13] what we do here at Ark Media. I hope to [12:15] see you there. If [music] Call Me Back [12:18] is where you come for honest [12:19] conversations about Israel and the [12:21] Jewish world, please hit subscribe and [12:24] also share it with a friend. And if you [12:26] missed our last episode, [music] it's [12:27] worth going back for. See you next time.
This is a sneak peek from the members-only edition of Inside Call Me Back. Today, Dan himself answers listener questions about whether extreme views about a One State solution in Israel will find adherents because moderates don’t have a concrete plan, what it would take to find consensus for creating a Palestinian entity, and why the upcoming Israeli elections are clouding the issue.
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You can access the full episode at https://inside.arkmedia.org/, where Dan answers listener questions about:
- What Dan has changed his mind about since October 7
- The Haredi draft fight and Israel’s unequal burden
- Could Yoav Segalovich help an Eisenkot government even as a member of the Ra’am party?
- Why Pakistan advocates for Iran
- Would a Netanyahu defeat make it easier for American Democrats to defend Israel?
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