Transcript [00:00] It is my dream to see a conservative [00:01] woman become president soon in my [00:03] lifetime. It's really important to me. I [00:05] want my girls to see it. Um, I would [00:07] love if you ran for president someday. [00:08] I'd be so excited. I would wear your [00:10] hat. I would just be so thrilled. I [00:12] would do everything you wanted. Do you [00:13] ever think about it? You probably are [00:15] going to say no, but I just I don't [00:17] know. I think it's it would be an [00:18] obvious move for you at some point. [00:21] >> Um, you're incredibly kind. Um, you [00:24] know. [00:34] All right, welcome back to Citizen [00:35] McCain. We're very excited for this [00:37] special. I've been wanting to interview [00:38] her for so long. Governor Sarah Huckabe, [00:41] the most wonderful governor from the [00:43] great state of Arkansas and uh former [00:46] press secretary for Donald Trump's White [00:48] House. You're the I did not know this. [00:49] You're the longest serving press [00:51] secretary to date from 2017 to 2019. I [00:54] did not know that. That's fantastic. [00:55] Thank you so much for for joining me, [00:58] Governor. [00:59] >> Absolutely. It's great to be with you [01:01] and uh I know you and I have been hoping [01:03] to connect for a long time. I feel like [01:05] we have so many things in common and um [01:08] certainly a lot of shared opinions and [01:11] thoughts on uh politics and pop culture [01:15] and a lot of other things. And so really [01:17] glad to be able to join you today. [01:19] Yeah. And I had the pleasure of [01:20] interviewing your dad about a month and [01:22] a half ago. And your dad is like such a [01:25] delight. I feel like in this era of just [01:29] anger and intensity and ugliness, he's [01:31] just so comforting and calming and I [01:35] really have such great respect for you [01:37] and your dad. Um I obviously I'm going [01:39] to ask about this. Do you go to him for [01:42] advice and does he have the same impact [01:44] on you that he does people like me where [01:46] he just seems to be like calm in a [01:48] storm? [01:50] >> Um I am extremely biased in my opinion. [01:53] This is one of those where um there's no [01:55] gray area for me. My dad is like one of [01:58] the best human beings that has ever [02:00] lived. Um and I'm so thankful that I got [02:05] to grow up watching him serve. Um, but [02:09] also that I have him as the best phone [02:12] of friend that you could have when there [02:13] are moments of crisis or things that [02:15] come up, especially now in this role. My [02:18] dad is really careful though that he [02:20] never weighs in. He doesn't just reach [02:22] out and say, "Hey, you should be doing [02:24] this or that." He waits until I come to [02:26] him. He waits until I ask. Um, which I [02:29] don't hesitate to do because he gives [02:31] good advice. Um, and he's been in the [02:33] seat that I'm in, and I know whatever he [02:36] is telling me, he's doing so from a [02:39] place of care and concern for me, but [02:42] also for the state. Um, and he's as good [02:45] in real life, behind the scenes as [02:47] people uh that are watching him on TV or [02:50] in any other capacity. Um, he really is [02:52] one of the the best people and I love [02:55] that I get to call him my day. Um, and [02:57] very proud to to see him serving as the [03:00] ambassador to Israel. Yeah, it's an [03:02] intense job and he's doing he's just [03:03] doing so incredible with it. He has such [03:05] grace and class about it. Um on my first [03:07] date, my husband Ben told me, um I love [03:10] you and I obviously like respect your [03:12] family, but I voted for Governor Huckabe [03:13] in the primary and you need to know that [03:16] and I told him that and he thought that [03:17] was very very funny. Um so he's like, [03:19] >> I knew I liked your husband. I knew that [03:22] I I was a big fan. [03:23] >> How do you guys deal with it? Because [03:25] again like political families you're the [03:27] you know you don't get the like nebo [03:29] baby label in the same way that other [03:30] people do and I think it's because [03:31] you're obviously so qualified for [03:33] everything but you know you are a [03:35] legacy. Your dad was the governor of [03:37] Arkansas. You know you come from a [03:38] political family. How did you navigate [03:41] that? And how do you navigate that [03:43] still? Because it as you know I don't [03:46] want to like name names but you could [03:48] have gone the Hunter Biden route. So [03:49] could have I. uh you know there are [03:50] other ways this could manifest and [03:52] you're I believe the most popular [03:55] governor in the country. Um how did you [03:57] decide to go into politics and were you [03:59] ever hesitant because of you know coming [04:01] from a legacy family? [04:02] >> Well, first you're very generous. Um I I [04:06] hope to at least be in the top of the [04:08] the governors in the country and I have [04:10] some amazing peers that I get to serve [04:12] alongside. You know, I think doing [04:15] exactly what you did um and that was [04:18] paving my own path. like I certainly uh [04:21] benefited having a dad who was governor [04:24] um and so well respected and so [04:26] well-liked um and I got to see a lot of [04:28] things and experience and had a front [04:31] row seat to what it looked like to [04:33] really govern and to lead from a from a [04:36] great example but at the same time I [04:39] paved my own road and I made a name for [04:41] myself um both kind of as a [04:44] behind-the-scenes political operative [04:46] and then as during my time at the White [04:48] House. And so just like you, you kind of [04:51] decided like yes, I love and support my [04:54] dad and I've learned a lot from him, but [04:55] I'm also going to do things in my own [04:58] way um and show people that I'm capable [05:00] and qualified in my own right to uh [05:03] engage in politics. [05:05] >> I saw this video of you and President [05:07] Clinton and your dad and Governor Asa [05:10] Hutchkins and I believe it was a [05:13] celebration of all the people who have [05:15] been governor of Arkansas. And I thought [05:16] it was so beautiful and interesting. C, [05:20] what was that like being in that room? [05:22] And what is your relationship like with [05:23] President Clinton? [05:24] >> Honestly, it was a little intimidating. [05:26] Um, you know, we have, um, somebody who [05:30] was the president of the United States, [05:32] um, all former governors, all men in [05:36] their at least 70s plus, and me right in [05:39] the me right in the middle. Um it was [05:42] the 75th anniversary of the governor's [05:44] mansion and it was a fundraiser for the [05:46] historic preservation. Um and the [05:48] Clintons, both Bill and Hillary could [05:50] not have been more kind uh not only to [05:54] come uh but they spent the entire [05:56] evening visiting with guests were very [05:59] gracious with their time. Um, and it was [06:01] a really a great celebration of our [06:03] state and a lot of the accomplishments [06:06] that people who have sat in this seat [06:09] and lived in the governor's mansion [06:11] here. [06:12] >> Yeah. I just thought it was so cool and [06:13] you did look like you were hundred years [06:14] younger than everybody respectfully, but [06:16] I was like that that room looked I don't [06:18] know. I just thought it was so such like [06:20] a visual of the changing of the guard [06:22] and in so many different ways and I just [06:24] thought it was so cool. Um, you know, [06:26] one thing we both have in common is [06:28] experiencing, you know, public criticism [06:30] and confrontation for being conservative [06:32] women. I know that um I believe I can't [06:35] remember if if this was uh something [06:37] that was recorded or something that was [06:38] told to me. I know you've experienced [06:39] people, you know, approaching you in [06:41] public, approaching you with your [06:42] children. Something I'm thinking about [06:43] with my kids is now there's like another [06:45] generation of Huckabees. You're new or [06:48] apologies. I'm sure your your children [06:50] use your husband's last name. Um, but [06:52] you know, I've seen pictures of your [06:53] daughter in the White House with you. [06:55] I've seen, you know, pictures of your [06:56] children at events. How do you navigate [06:58] that, having the experience of also [07:00] being a child of a politician? And how [07:02] do you deal with, you know, this is a [07:04] dangerous time? We just experienced the [07:06] one-year anniversary of Charlie Kirk's [07:08] assassination. Like, how do you navigate [07:10] all of this? [07:12] >> You know, it's frankly, it's pretty [07:14] challenging, and some days it can be a [07:16] little bit scary and daunting. When I [07:18] was at the White House, frankly, it was [07:20] a little bit easier despite the fact it [07:22] was a much higher profile position. Um, [07:24] and the level of criticism and animosity [07:28] was as as high and as intense as I've [07:31] ever experienced. But my kids were a lot [07:33] younger. When I started at the White [07:35] House, they were 53 and one. And so, [07:37] they were not paying attention. They [07:39] weren't quite as aware. kids in their [07:41] classroom, they barely knew who the [07:43] president was, much less uh had strong [07:46] opinions about whether they liked or [07:48] didn't like him. They might know um that [07:51] their parents didn't like who I worked [07:53] for, but there wasn't a sense of [07:55] awareness that they have now. So, we [07:56] have to take it day by day. I try not to [07:58] shield my kids, but talk to them a lot [08:00] about um if this is something that [08:04] bothered you, this is why we don't treat [08:06] people that way. and use it as a moment [08:08] to say we're going to you can disagree [08:10] with somebody. Um and um this happens [08:13] even within the walls of our own house [08:15] when siblings are fighting. I'm like you [08:17] can be mad, you can not like something, [08:19] but you don't get to be unkind. Um and [08:22] that goes whether you're in our kitchen [08:25] or whether you're out in public like you [08:28] have to decide that you're going to [08:30] choose joy and you're going to be kind [08:32] to other people no matter what. And so I [08:34] try to use it as example. Um, but it can [08:37] be challenging as you know and as you're [08:39] raising kids in this environment. It's [08:41] getting harder and harder um to protect [08:45] and so I I try to just use it as a [08:47] moment to talk about how we're going to [08:48] treat other people. [08:49] >> Yeah. I mean it's it's really [08:51] challenging and I don't you know I'm not [08:52] the governor of Arkansas but it still [08:54] like presents different things different [08:56] places and even in just like you know [08:59] our like school groups when you find out [09:01] that like someone works for X place and [09:04] we're obviously going to disagree it it [09:05] certainly presents its challenges. One [09:08] thing I've always wanted to ask you is [09:11] and this is like a little niche but it's [09:12] just my own personal personal uh [09:15] curiosity. We had the same woman [09:17] impersonate us on Saturday Night Live, [09:19] Adie Bryant, who I actually went uh to [09:21] the same high school with. She doesn't [09:23] care that we went to the same high [09:24] school. And I found her interpretation [09:26] of both of us to be cruel. And um like [09:29] you know, you see how Saturday Night [09:31] Live impersonates uh Democrat women [09:33] compared to conservative women. I didn't [09:35] find it funny. I can laugh at myself. I [09:37] didn't find your impersonation funny. Um [09:39] do you have any feelings about that? [09:42] Maybe you don't. I think maybe it just [09:44] ticked me off in particular because I [09:46] felt like both of us were being uh you [09:48] know hit out in a way that I felt like [09:50] was unfair. [09:51] >> You know, Saturday Night Live used to be [09:53] funny and now it's just mean. Um, I I [09:56] remember the days of like actually [09:58] looking forward to watching an episode [10:00] of that show because it had these laugh [10:02] out loud skits that kind of poked fun at [10:05] everybody but really brought the [10:08] humorous side and were very lighthearted [10:11] um and enjoyable. And now it is so [10:14] pointed, so political and so angry that [10:16] it's not funny anymore. Um, I I will [10:19] never forget and I he'll probably be mad [10:21] at me for sharing this story, but the [10:23] morning after, it was a Sunday, um, and [10:26] Sean Spicer called me and it was it was [10:30] right after I'd had, I guess, what you [10:31] call my my SNL debut where they were [10:34] making fun of me and it had, like you [10:35] said, been a pretty mean-spirited. And [10:38] Spicer called to check in. He's like, [10:39] "So, how we doing?" And I was like, "You [10:42] know, I'm good. I wish they could have [10:44] found somebody else to play me." And he [10:47] goes, "Well, at least you had somebody [10:50] of the correct sex." And I was like, [10:52] "Fair enough. You win." I was like, [10:54] "Okay, you're right, Sean. It was way [10:56] worse for you. I'll give you that." And [10:58] so we kind of laughed at it. And that's [11:00] the thing, like you, I can I mean, we're [11:03] we're talking all the time in a public [11:06] space. You're going to say things that [11:08] can be made fun of and that you can [11:10] laugh at. I can laugh at myself. I can [11:13] make jokes about it, but it's just it's [11:15] got to be funny and it's not funny [11:17] anymore. And I wish they would go back [11:20] to a time where they focused on the [11:23] humorous side because we give plenty of [11:25] material to be funny and do that instead [11:28] of being mean. [11:29] >> Yeah, I agree. And I just think the [11:31] means and it's so I used to actually [11:32] intern there a thousand years ago and I [11:35] I think they would have more viewers if [11:37] they were actually you know they never [11:39] go after and like it with the Biden [11:41] years it was like nothing ever happened [11:42] even when his you know brain was melting [11:44] down it was clear he was not you know in [11:46] a place where he could actually be [11:47] president anymore but I just always [11:49] thought it was funny that like they were [11:51] just like okay this actress is going to [11:52] play all the conservative women no [11:54] matter what and it's going to be um you [11:57] know I was sent earlier this Uh, [12:00] amazing. Just right before I came on, [12:02] this amazing ad that you just put out [12:04] about uh, keeping women's sports for [12:06] women only. [12:08] >> Okay, ladies. Washington says, "You want [12:10] your federal funding? Meet your new [12:12] teammate." [12:14] >> Sup, girls. [12:15] >> What? [12:16] >> Unreal. [12:16] >> Who thought this was a good idea? [12:18] >> Yeah. [12:19] >> In 2024, the Biden administration said [12:22] we must allow men to play women's sports [12:24] or we would lose millions in federal [12:26] funding. We did not comply. I won the [12:28] fight to keep men out of women's sports, [12:31] locker rooms, and restrooms. And I will [12:33] always stand for what's right against [12:35] the outofc control left. I don't know if [12:37] you saw this, but Texas Democrat [12:38] candidate James Taler Rico said he [12:40] opposes transgender athletes [12:42] participating in girls sports. Um, which [12:44] is a shift from the position he took. I [12:46] don't believe him. I know you have made [12:49] it a part of your platform as governor. [12:51] I'm very grateful. uh you know, amazing [12:54] for the moms in Arkansas that they get [12:56] to have you protecting their daughters. [12:57] Um why was that such an important issue [13:00] to you and what do you make of James [13:01] Talerico trying to hedge uh away from [13:04] this as he has done? [13:05] >> Well, I I agree with you. I don't trust [13:07] him. And I think because if you look at [13:09] everything he says and if you read the [13:11] end of that sentence, he said he doesn't [13:14] support men and women's sports anytime [13:17] it threatens safety or fairness. Well, [13:20] every time you have a man in a woman's [13:22] sports, you're threatening safety and [13:24] fairness. It's such a ridiculous, [13:26] frankly, stupid statement. Um, and it [13:30] shows just I I think the dishonesty he's [13:33] trying to have it both ways. But [13:35] ultimately, I I want to protect women [13:37] whether it's on a court or a field, in a [13:40] locker room, a restroom. I have a [13:42] 14-year-old daughter. She's an athlete. [13:44] She should not be subjected to standing [13:46] in her locker room changing with a [13:49] 14-year-old boy. I mean, that is absurd [13:52] to anybody who really thinks about it. [13:55] Nobody would want their daughter [13:57] standing next to um a male in in a in a [14:02] different type of situation. So, why [14:03] would we do that in the locker room? I I [14:06] want to protect not just my daughter, [14:07] but every girl that's growing up in my [14:10] state and frankly in the country. And it [14:12] is absurd that we're even having this [14:14] conversation for a party that talks all [14:16] the time about how they support science [14:19] and they biology. This is the most basic [14:22] biology that there has ever been. Men or [14:25] men, women or women, they have distinct [14:27] differences. This isn't a hard con [14:29] conversation and it shouldn't be [14:31] something that's controversial. [14:32] >> It shouldn't be, but it is. And I, like [14:35] I said, I I can't even believe it's [14:36] still a conversation that that is being [14:38] had out in, you know, normal areas of [14:41] public. I am so shocked that uh you know [14:44] Telerico was trying to like sort of [14:45] reashion himself as some kind of [14:47] moderate because it's obvious that that [14:48] he is not. Um how do you choose which [14:52] issues you take on as governor? I mean [14:53] I'm sure people come to you with things [14:54] all day every day. I just also read that [14:56] you announced your my natural state [14:58] story which is a statewide essay contest [15:01] designed to encourage students to spend [15:03] time outdoors and write about their [15:04] experiences. I love this so much. All I [15:06] want is for my kids to touch grass and [15:08] get outside and not be around. I mean, I [15:10] don't allow screens anyway. Like, I [15:11] mean, they're allowed to watch movies on [15:13] occasion, but we don't do iPads or [15:15] anything like that because I'm so [15:16] freaked out about like what's happening [15:18] to kids' brains. How did you decide uh [15:20] to make that something that was uh an [15:22] initiative you put out? And how do you [15:24] choose, you know, your priorities? [15:26] Because again, I'm sure all day, every [15:27] day, people are trying to pitch things [15:29] for you to take on. [15:30] >> This particular issue is one that's [15:32] really personal for my husband and I. [15:33] like you, we want our kids to be [15:36] outside. And you can't replace something [15:39] with nothing. If we want to take away [15:41] the screens, we want to keep kids from [15:44] spending all day every day sitting in [15:46] front of a TV or an iPad, you have to [15:48] give them an alternative. And what we [15:50] really want to see them engage in is [15:52] activity, being outside. We know that [15:54] it's good for your mental health, your [15:56] physical health, your emotional health [15:58] to be outside, to be active. And so this [16:00] is a great way to encourage kids uh on [16:04] all fronts to to get outside and off [16:06] screens. We want to create a place where [16:08] not only are we incentivizing and [16:11] encouraging, but hopefully creating a [16:12] lifelong passion for kids to be outside [16:16] in the outdoors. Our state is the [16:18] natural state for a reason and we want [16:20] people to know how beautiful our state [16:22] is and get out and experience it. I know [16:24] you're obviously running for reelection [16:26] and you're a popular governor and all [16:27] these things, but I would be remiss if I [16:29] didn't ask if you would ever think about [16:30] running for Senate or for president. I [16:32] told your dad that you're my uh sleeper [16:35] choice for, you know, maybe not 28, but [16:38] maybe 34, maybe 28. I have no idea. Um, [16:41] you know, I don't know how to say this [16:43] in a way that doesn't sound weird, but I [16:45] love women in politics. I love strong [16:47] women in politics. It is my dream to see [16:49] a conservative woman become president [16:51] soon, in my lifetime. It's really [16:53] important to me. I want my girls to see [16:54] it. Um, I would love if you ran for [16:56] president someday. I'd be so excited. I [16:58] would wear your hat. I would just be so [17:00] thrilled. I would do everything you [17:01] wanted. Do you ever think about it? You [17:03] probably are going to say no, but I just [17:05] I don't know. I think it's it would be [17:07] an obvious move for you at some point. [17:09] >> Um, you're incredibly kind. If somebody [17:12] had told me um in 2010, even 2014, that [17:16] I would become the White House press [17:18] secretary for Donald Trump. Um, I never [17:20] would have believed that. It was not [17:22] really the path that I thought I was on. [17:25] I love the job that I have and my goal [17:27] and my focus is to do the best possible [17:30] job in the opportunity that I've been [17:33] given. I'm running for reelection. It's [17:35] the only uh focus I really have is [17:37] continuing to serve in this capacity and [17:40] figure out what God wants for me to do [17:42] next. Um I'm with you though. I love [17:45] conservative women leading and I think [17:48] it is so impactful. Women uh [17:51] unfortunately can be our own worst [17:53] enemies. We do not support each other [17:56] enough. And so no matter what role I am [17:58] in, I'm thankful for people like you who [18:01] are willing to speak up and support [18:03] other women because I don't think it [18:05] happens enough. I've been lucky enough [18:07] to become friends with some other strong [18:10] conservative women. I think Senator [18:11] Katie Britt is a remarkable young [18:15] leader in our party. Um, I've loved [18:17] getting to know her. I I think people [18:20] like you and Riley Gaines and others who [18:22] are using their microphones and their [18:24] platforms to not only promote ideas that [18:27] they care about, but specifically to [18:29] promote conservative women is so [18:31] powerful, so needed. And so, I thank you [18:33] for being willing to do that. Um, and [18:35] hopefully I will win in November and [18:38] we'll get a chance to continue working [18:39] together on lots of things to to help [18:41] women across the country. Governor, I [18:43] think you're gonna be okay in November. [18:45] I don't want to jinx it. I think we're [18:47] gonna be all right. Like, you know, [18:50] you've been in politics a long time. You [18:52] know that you can never take anything [18:54] for granted. Run like you're 20 points [18:57] behind. Uh I feel very confident I'm [18:59] going to win, but I'm going to continue [19:01] to work hard every day until we get [19:03] there. [19:04] >> I appreciate I agree with you and [19:06] appreciate it, but I think I I think [19:07] you're going to be okay. Um, uh, you [19:10] know, we we messaged each other over the [19:11] passing of Senator Lindsey Graham. I [19:13] know you were close with them and your [19:15] father was close with him. It really hit [19:17] me much harder than I expected. I mean, [19:19] I think it's because it was so [19:20] unexpected. He died, you know, out of [19:22] nowhere. I miss him. I I miss him. I [19:25] miss I miss seeing him on TV. I miss [19:28] hearing from him. I miss hearing stories [19:29] from my mom. Um, how are you doing with [19:32] with with grieving the loss and and how [19:35] is your family doing with it? You know, [19:37] I miss his voice. Um, you didn't have to [19:40] agree with him on everything, but you [19:44] still could appreciate and respect his [19:47] cander and his willingness to stand up [19:49] for things even when he was the only one [19:51] doing it. Um, and he always did it with [19:54] this touch of humor that is, I think, so [19:58] underappreciated in politics. I miss [20:01] that tremendously. And I think the [20:02] country misses it even though some [20:05] people probably don't know it and don't [20:07] realize it. He brought something that [20:09] very few other politicians I think have [20:13] the ability to do. And it's why people [20:15] loved him from both sides of the aisle. [20:17] Um people that didn't vote or agree with [20:20] him on anything could still respect and [20:23] appreciate who he was. And that is so [20:26] missed in American politics today. Um, [20:28] and I love that you've been so open in [20:31] sharing uh your grief on that so that [20:35] other people feel comfortable doing so, [20:36] but also in talking about uh who he was [20:40] and what he brought to the conversation. [20:43] Um, if people aren't willing to talk [20:45] about some of those emotions that can be [20:47] challenging and difficult, um, some [20:49] people may never, you know, have that [20:51] same understanding or know who he was. [20:54] And so your willingness to do that, I [20:56] think, is so meaningful. And so I know [20:58] that's not been easy for you to do, but [21:00] I think it's appreciated by a lot of us [21:02] around the country. [21:03] >> Thank you. Yeah, it just makes me feel [21:06] old and it just, you know, it's like [21:07] another passing of this old guard and um [21:10] you know, I I'm I'm going to be 42 in a [21:13] month and I just am like when did I get [21:15] this? When did I become the older person [21:18] in some of these places? And when do I [21:20] know people who, you know, will have [21:22] passed on? It's just I don't know. I [21:23] feel I feel my age a little bit. We're [21:25] no longer 20some supporting our dad's [21:28] running for president, governor. Okay, [21:30] it's time has passed. [21:31] >> I'm older than you. So, at least you [21:33] still you're still a couple years behind [21:35] me. You'll love this story because [21:37] you're a mom, but kids will certainly [21:39] keep you humble. My youngest, his name [21:41] is George. He um I try to take my kids [21:44] with me to events a lot of the times and [21:47] uh sometimes they get a little exhausted [21:48] with that. And George had come with me [21:50] to quite a few events. And you know when [21:53] I would go up and they read your bio and [21:55] they're like and welcome Sarah Sanders, [21:57] the youngest governor in the country and [22:00] he had come to an event and they [22:01] introduced me that way. I give my [22:03] speech. I sit back down and George goes, [22:04] "Mom, are you really still the youngest [22:07] governor in the country?" I was like, [22:08] "Yes, George." And he he kind of looks [22:11] over at me totally not believing. He [22:13] goes, "Well, those other guys must be [22:15] really old." So, [22:17] >> oh my gosh, [22:18] >> you know, they're they're very good at [22:20] being pointed and reminding you that [22:22] they they do not think you are young [22:24] anymore either. [22:25] >> Governor Hugabe, thank you. Or Huckabe [22:28] Sanders. I'm sorry. I was calling you [22:29] Governor Huckabe the whole time out of [22:31] uh out of habit with with your dad. I [22:33] apologize. Please tell your lovely [22:35] family. I said hello. I really like I [22:37] just adore you and your dad. I think [22:38] your dad is like doing such important [22:41] work right now and it can't be easy for [22:43] any of you, you know, having him serve [22:46] in this important role and I just I'm so [22:48] grateful all the time. I'm grateful all [22:50] the work you do and just thank you [22:51] again. I you're just such a wonderful [22:53] person. Thank you.
