Transcript [00:00] You could see that that the 7th of [00:02] October was completely forgotten. It was [00:05] not there at all. Nobody quoted it. [00:07] Nobody remember what happened there. And [00:09] these uh two guys were just starting [00:12] from the second when you can prove that [00:15] the Jews, not the Israeli, the Jews are [00:18] cruel beyond any expectations [music] [00:21] and then then to destroy Israel is the [00:24] right choice. We're here with Viamstein, [00:26] a senior contributing editor at JNS, [00:29] former Italian parliamentarian and vice [00:32] chair of the foreign affairs committee [00:34] in Italy. Uh, one of the most prolific [00:36] authors, written dozens of books on [00:39] anti-semitism, on Islamic terrorism, has [00:42] interviewed Yaser Arafat as a journalist [00:45] and we are pleased to have her writing [00:46] on JNS on almost daily basis. Fama, [00:49] welcome to the studio. [00:51] >> Thank you very much, Alex. [00:52] here [00:53] >> and we have a lot to talk about and [00:54] specifically you know you bring [00:56] expertise in two key areas one in [00:59] European politics and the other in [01:01] anti-semitism [01:03] and we're seeing uh the merging of the [01:05] two very powerfully and this week uh [01:09] when you talk about Italy there was a [01:11] film festival in Venice and a film made [01:14] by Israeli filmmakers actually won the [01:16] special jury prize insisting uh alleging [01:20] accusing Israel of intentionally [01:23] targeting children in the Gaza Strip. [01:26] >> You know, it's really something that [01:29] nobody expected it in such a harsh way [01:32] to to see this two young Israelis [01:36] because this is what they are. They are [01:38] the authors. Don't forget that out of [01:40] the festival palace there was the flag [01:43] of Israel waving. And so this this makes [01:47] the things even more outrageous. [01:50] this uh these two guys they they just [01:54] presented a movie where they through you [01:59] know testimonies that no one of them is [02:03] identified. It's all in the dark. You [02:06] cannot know who they are. You will never [02:08] know who they are. and and they say that [02:13] uh whenever they had to decide either to [02:15] strike or not in uh in Gaza during the [02:19] war, they decid decided so not only not [02:23] withstanding how many civilians were [02:25] there, but even with a certain, [02:29] you know, complacency and pleasure in [02:32] deciding to strike there even if there [02:36] were children, women, exactly the [02:38] opposite of what happens. They're [02:40] basically asserting that during the war, [02:42] Israel was using AI to generate targets, [02:45] uh, which they did, of course, but [02:47] specifically that they were knowing how [02:50] many women or children were in a [02:52] situation and were specifically choosing [02:54] targets on the basis of how many women [02:57] and children were were in the place. [02:59] >> Yes, something like that. And uh one of [03:02] them says that he cannot uh be very [03:06] specific about the number that were [03:07] killed uh one time after the other, but [03:11] that he can remember that once he was in [03:14] front of the number of 500 civilians [03:18] that were the target that were that they [03:21] decided to strike. And it's really [03:23] interesting because 10 days in the war, [03:25] you had this uh even before the ground [03:27] invasion, you had this headline that the [03:29] IDF had struck the hospital, the Ali [03:32] hospital in Gaza and killed 500 people. [03:34] And every news agency from Reuters, AP, [03:38] CNN, BBC, New York Times, they all ran [03:40] with the headline that the IDF had [03:41] bombed the hospital and killed 500 [03:44] people. Except it wasn't the IDF. It was [03:45] an Islamic jihad rocket. Didn't hit the [03:48] hospital. It hit the parking lot outside [03:49] the hospital. and it hit the parking lot [03:51] outside the hospital at close to [03:53] midnight. There was no chance that 500 [03:55] people had been killed in the strike. [03:57] But this you saw from this moment what [03:59] the strategy of kamas was, which was to [04:03] use the media uh in order to create this [04:07] lie that Israel was intentionally [04:09] striking women, children, hitting [04:12] hospitals. Uh that this was the entire [04:15] strategy, right? And Prime Minister [04:16] Netanyahu has said it a few times, you [04:19] know, that every civilian [04:21] lost in Gaza for Israel is a tragedy, [04:24] but for Hamas, every civilian killed is [04:26] a strategy. [04:27] >> Of course, because that was the [04:28] strategic aim of Hamas to put their [04:31] civilians in front so that this could [04:34] serve them from many points of view. [04:36] first of all to raise uh the the the [04:39] sorrow the the solidarity of all the [04:42] world and uh and and also to keep the [04:46] word on its side to continue fighting [04:50] against us. This is what they do today [04:52] and they use it as a continue weapon [04:56] against us because this becomes the [04:59] basis for the accusation of ethnic [05:01] cleansing. Right? that is one of the [05:03] basic blood liels that are used against [05:05] us as the basic on on its side of uh of [05:10] being a part of the genocidal choice of [05:14] Israel. So you know here what is [05:16] interesting and you could see also [05:19] during the speeches that these two [05:22] Israelis were giving in Bennis. You [05:25] could see that that the the 7th of [05:29] October was completely forgotten. It was [05:32] not there at all. Nobody quoted it. [05:34] Nobody remember what happened there. And [05:37] these uh two guys were just starting [05:39] from the second when you can prove that [05:42] the Jews, not the Israeli, the Jews are [05:45] cruel beyond any expectations and then [05:48] then to destroy Israel is the right [05:51] choice. Meanwhile, we've seen recently, [05:53] just in the last week, some statistics [05:55] showing that I think actually in Italy [05:57] was one of the countries where where [05:59] they pulled that that showed that a lot [06:02] of Italians and others didn't know about [06:05] the atrocity of October 7th. They only [06:08] know about the war. Uh so if you take [06:10] October 7th out of the picture, right, [06:12] which was the worst massacre in the [06:14] history of uh modern Israel where 6,000 [06:18] uh Gazins in Kuni Kamas terrorists came [06:20] across the border on a Jewish holiday, [06:23] murdered 1,200 people, injured thousands [06:26] of others, burned houses to the ground [06:27] and took 255 people hostage into the [06:30] Gaza Strip. It was it was a horrific [06:32] massacre of pagrum and that was the [06:35] basis for the war which has now lasted [06:37] for a few years. But even a lot of [06:39] people don't recognize that October 7th [06:41] even happened, meaning that the war in [06:43] their view is completely unjustified. [06:46] And then like you're saying that we have [06:48] the the the kamas and the international [06:52] community what they've been doing is [06:54] boiling down Israel's actions to a [06:58] singular key word and they use a few of [07:00] them, right? So the first one that they [07:01] were using before the war was apartheid, [07:04] right? And then the second the war [07:06] started it was genocide right and now uh [07:10] when genocide is not really holding [07:14] because you see that the number of [07:15] people killed Israel wasn't targeting [07:18] civilians and women and children. the [07:20] opposite. John Spencer, who was the head [07:22] of the urban warfare department at West [07:24] Point, who has studied wars extensively [07:27] and it was in Gaza many times, says that [07:29] Israel [07:30] >> was responsible for the lowest [07:33] >> rate of casualties to to terrorists in [07:36] the history of modern warfare. So now [07:39] they're shifting from this claim of [07:41] genocide, which isn't really backed up [07:44] by any fact whatsoever, and they're [07:46] talking about now ethnic cleansing. I [07:48] never thought that backing with facts [07:51] would they, you know, our version of [07:54] which is a real version, the true [07:56] version of the story will help anyhow [07:58] because this is an ideological choice. [08:00] It's an anti-semitic choice and and [08:03] there is something that is called hate [08:06] for the Jews. The Jews hate Israel hate [08:09] that cannot be beatated. Explaining them [08:11] that no, after all we were not so bad, [08:13] after all we are good. This is not the [08:15] point. We must stay strong and tell [08:17] them, look, you say a lot of lies. We [08:20] despise you and we should tell these two [08:23] guys, the the girl and the and the boy, [08:25] please don't come to Israel anymore. We [08:27] don't want you around here. [08:29] >> Right? I think this is a fundamental [08:30] question that a lot of people around the [08:32] world would have, which is you, if [08:35] Israel is taking all these efforts to [08:38] reduce civilian casualties, why are [08:39] Israeli filmmakers out there uh saying [08:42] that Israel was doing the opposite? that [08:44] is specifically targeting women and [08:46] children. And then you get to this [08:48] greater point because people always come [08:49] to me and they ask me about uh what they [08:52] call Israeli hazah or advocacy and they [08:54] say why is Israel doing so poorly in [08:57] getting its message out and on the one [08:59] hand we just said people didn't even [09:00] know that October 7th happened but then [09:02] on the other hand how on earth can [09:05] Israel win the battle of messaging when [09:08] it constantly undermines itself? When [09:10] you have Israeli filmmakers saying that [09:13] Israel is targeting women and children. [09:14] When you have former heads of the Mossad [09:16] and even former prime ministers going on [09:18] to CNN and saying that Israel is [09:20] committing war crimes, what what's what [09:22] is this phenomena? [09:24] >> Listen, what is this? [09:25] >> It's not always useless to say things. [09:28] It depends very much on the way you say [09:30] that. For instance, now we we have of [09:32] the screen on the screens of all the [09:34] word FA. Yes. which is the Netflix [09:39] series [09:40] uh [09:42] >> where you see what they have done you [09:44] see you see it directly for the first [09:46] time because stupidly in my opinion and [09:50] strangely also we refuse maybe for [09:53] respect for the families and I can [09:54] understand that but you know we should [09:57] have I don't know blurred the faces or [09:59] whatever but we should have done what FA [10:02] is doing today in the seventh and in the [10:04] eighth chapter of the of the the play. [10:08] Yeah. They they show sometimes real [10:11] pictures re replayed [10:13] >> of what's happened. [10:14] >> Actual footage of October 7th. [10:16] >> Yeah. It's footage of October 7th. And [10:19] you know what? While they show it, then [10:22] they don't say, "Well, we don't [10:23] understand why they did it because we [10:25] are good." No. Justin F and this is the [10:28] second part of the story. They keep [10:31] fighting and even revenging. I know that [10:34] re revenge is not a nice word today but [10:37] I'm just describing what happens in [10:39] powder just to tell you that very much [10:42] depends on how we tell the story how we [10:46] show our feeling on one side we have to [10:49] say look at them they are the the the [10:52] the monsters of our times they are the [10:55] nazi of our time worse than the Nazi [10:57] look what they have done to our women [10:59] and children and families on the other [11:01] side there always must be our finger up [11:06] there that says and now be careful look [11:09] at what we're doing to them because this [11:11] is what happened in the movie and this [11:14] is what happens in the reality it's [11:16] nothing wrong we will never shoot to [11:19] civilians but we are very good in [11:22] fighting for our own sake to defend [11:25] ourselves so these are the two message [11:28] that must be put together in my opinion [11:31] to show again in these times of real [11:33] troubles. What's happened then? Because [11:36] as you said right now, nobody has really [11:38] understood what was going there over [11:39] there. But on the other side, we have [11:42] also to be very clear and very quiet in [11:47] saying and now see what we are able to [11:50] do because we can [11:52] >> and FA is actually performing very very [11:55] well across uh the Arab world in the [11:58] Middle East. In Lebanon, it's the number [11:59] one program right now. [12:01] in Egypt and other countries around the [12:04] region that you would have thought maybe [12:05] would have blocked a show like this [12:07] because this show does show the [12:09] counterterrorism units and in the [12:11] Israeli military and intelligence and [12:13] how they operate. It's a very like it's [12:16] this is already I think the fifth season [12:18] of FA. [12:18] >> It shows not only that we were desperate [12:21] but that we were angry. It shows us two [12:24] things together which have never really [12:27] been shown together. We have shown a lot [12:29] of tears. [12:30] You know there was a his name is Cohen [12:33] the young a young boy that was one of [12:36] the katuim of the king. [12:39] >> Yes. And he has spoken after he has [12:41] heard what what they have said uh in [12:45] Venice this these two guys [12:47] >> and he said if I will meet them in the [12:50] in the street I will spit to them. I [12:53] cannot allow them to to to throw all of [12:57] this dirt on the soldiers that risk [13:00] their life to come into into Gaza to [13:04] save me. He said they just came to save [13:07] me. They risk their life to save me. And [13:10] and he repeats that I think that [13:12] everybody should see this guy because he [13:15] explains very well what is the the real [13:17] fear. Also very important to understand [13:19] that when kamas agreed to release the [13:23] hostages that was the ceasefire right [13:26] the ceasefire was declared the moment [13:28] kamas agreed to release all of the [13:30] hostages living in dead and since that [13:32] time you have not had any major Israeli [13:35] operation inside the Gaza Strip. [13:37] >> Exact. And so, you know, we hear we have [13:40] uh Jewish Israeli filmmakers uh putting [13:43] a blood rival. And then you also have a [13:46] Jewish uh foreign secretary in the [13:49] United Kingdom, Ed Miband, uh who I [13:52] think shocked Israel uh very much so [13:54] last week when he said that Israel was [13:56] committing ethnic cleansing not only in [13:58] Gaza, but also in what the international [14:00] community refers to as the West Bank, [14:02] which we know in Israel as Judea and [14:04] Samaria. uh a place where Israel has not [14:07] even had any kind of major uh military [14:10] operation whatsoever. And uh you know [14:13] Palestinians are living quite well uh [14:16] throughout all of Judea and Samaria [14:18] oftentimes in large houses driving [14:20] incredible Mercedes and BMWs and just [14:23] living the good life uh you know [14:26] alongside for the most part Jews in [14:28] Judea and Samaria. And and so Miban said [14:31] that Israel is committing ethnic [14:32] cleansing and for the first time leveled [14:35] sanctions uh against Israeli [14:37] organizations that are helping uh Jewish [14:40] presence expand in Judea and Samaria and [14:42] and Israel has taken some pretty tough [14:45] countermeasures. [14:46] >> Look, [14:47] first of all, you were totally right [14:49] underlining the fact that this comes as [14:53] a particularly disgusting story being [14:55] him a Jew. you know that he mentioned [14:57] that in his speech when he announced uh [15:00] his measures and uh at the beginning he [15:02] rem he reminded when he was very young [15:05] when he was coming to Israel and he [15:07] liked very much to go around in the [15:11] Israel that he loved at that time now he [15:13] doesn't love it anymore you know that's [15:16] the other story you know that's the [15:17] other part of the mythos just to say [15:19] that once upon a time Israel was such a [15:22] good country everybody wanted peace and [15:25] then there comes all the rest. Then [15:27] comes something that nobody know how it [15:29] sprang up, but supposedly [15:32] that it's it's the the guilt is all on [15:35] the right. It's all on the right. [15:37] >> Particularly Netanyahu, right? [15:39] >> Of course, Netanyahu is always [15:41] >> And you had Hillary Clinton. Yes. [15:43] Hillary Clinton this week said that uh [15:45] that Netanyahu is the problem and uh [15:47] once [15:48] >> Netanyao is the problem and they are [15:49] putting more and more accusations on on [15:51] him when they when you think okay then [15:54] we're done. and they have said whatever [15:56] they could. No, then they found one more [15:59] thing that I put on him another lie [16:01] another story because they are desperate [16:03] to win the elections that just because [16:05] they you know what what they feel that [16:08] they they have nothing real to propose [16:11] that that's a real story. There is [16:13] nothing to propose that they can do. [16:14] What? Can they propose a Palestinian [16:16] state? Can they propose? Uh can they can [16:19] can they propose that Israel takes the [16:24] mitim out of Judea and Samaria? I mean [16:28] there are these were stupid proposals [16:30] that were done long ago, [16:32] >> right? They want to ethnically cleanse [16:33] Jews from Judea. Like the people that [16:35] want a Palestinian state in Samaria, [16:38] they want the only [16:39] >> more than half a million Jews that live [16:41] there. They want the only province in [16:43] the world called Judea. And Jews are [16:45] come called Jews because they're from [16:46] Judea. And they want Judea to be what [16:49] the Nazis call Udrine, Jewree. [16:51] >> Now le let's go back to to to min. And [16:56] uh you know um I think that what what [17:02] what happens when they come up the some [17:05] some European states with these [17:07] proposals is just all the time it's for [17:10] internal aims. I mean they feel that [17:13] their coalition is not strong. They find [17:15] nothing that could save them. They find [17:18] nothing that they can really propose. [17:20] The Spanish are a typical example of [17:22] that. They are in terrible difficulties [17:24] and then they keep pushing and pushing [17:26] and pushing the Israeli issue. Okay? [17:29] >> They push recognition of Israeli of [17:31] Palestinian statehood. Now they're [17:33] pushing sanctions, right? And we we all [17:35] the time we're talking about this uh [17:37] boycott, divestment and sanctions [17:39] movement for many years and the the [17:41] feeling was that it wasn't really going [17:44] to harm Israel too much. But now you see [17:47] major governments like the United [17:50] Kingdom which was once considered is [17:52] Israel's probably their second strongest [17:54] ally in the world. [17:55] >> Look, Alex, the more they try to to form [17:58] a coalition against Israel, the more it [18:02] happens [18:03] out of a fear of war. They have Putin [18:06] over there. Don't forget that this is [18:08] something that's a shade on all the [18:10] European politics that you must you must [18:12] never forget. This is something that [18:14] they uh this is one side. So the most [18:19] they push this issue the the the most [18:22] that they become weak on that. Why that? [18:25] First of all because they're missing [18:28] when they go against Israel first of all [18:30] they miss something that they terribly [18:32] need which is the relationship with [18:34] Israel. We have seen it just with we [18:37] have seen it with England right now. [18:39] >> Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about what [18:41] the Israeli response was because I think [18:43] this is a sea change, right? In the [18:45] past, you know, Israel would, you know, [18:47] make condemnations, harsh statements. [18:50] But here, Israel actually took some [18:52] pretty significant counter measures the [18:54] moment Miliban came out with this [18:56] statement. They decided to uh shutter a [18:59] consulate uh in eastern section of [19:01] Jerusalem, which was basically serving [19:03] as an embassy to the Palestinian [19:05] Authority in Israeli sovereignty. No, [19:07] no, it's not only an embassy. It's eyes [19:10] over there, you know, and the and the [19:12] British love to be informed. This is one [19:15] of their main things. And here have [19:17] comes the other issue. And the other [19:20] issue is just connected to information [19:24] and security. You know how many times we [19:27] have saved we have saved the British [19:31] from main terrorist attacks and you know [19:34] how much they need it. having now a day [19:38] over there a huge militant jihadist [19:42] immigration and you know how many [19:45] European countries that they are just on [19:48] the same side of this coin and need us [19:52] desperately [19:54] about that. So yeah, do you push us out? [19:57] Okay, we are out and you do it by [20:00] yourself. But the next time that [20:04] Shalon, [20:05] God forbid it, something will happen [20:09] over there, they will have to thank only [20:12] their stupid politics against Israel, [20:15] which is, you know, masochistic. It's [20:18] nothing more and nothing less than than [20:21] masoistic. So that that's the way that's [20:24] the way a small group of the European [20:26] Union act. And I must tell you that it's [20:30] the European Union itself that since a [20:34] long time basically because of two issue [20:36] one the immigrants and the second the [20:39] war the war that they have in Europe is [20:42] in a very un unstable and difficult [20:46] situation where you have to take sides [20:49] and it's very difficult to take sides. [20:51] >> Well the United Kingdom left the [20:53] European Union several years ago. But [20:55] never mind still it's in Europe you know [20:57] in this case the connection is there the [21:00] connection is strong and it's it's it's [21:03] something that then actually as I say [21:07] had a reflect in the European Union [21:09] where several state responded with an [21:12] agreement to this stupid politics of [21:15] sanctions but what look at that on the [21:18] other side we have a you have a denial [21:22] two very important uh parts of the [21:24] European Union, two very important [21:26] states that are Germany and Italy that [21:29] from time to time themselves have not [21:31] been so tender to Israel still this time [21:36] they say no thank you we we don't join [21:39] >> right that was the major question right [21:40] England is the first one to say that [21:42] they're going to do major sanctions and [21:44] we've seen it in the west also Canada uh [21:47] this government [21:47] >> Canada it's a long time it's a policies [21:49] with the with with the USA because don't [21:52] forget that here there is this [21:53] anti-Americanism that goes strictly [21:56] together uh with anti-Israelianism and [21:59] it's always something that is great for [22:02] the western culture [22:03] >> in the United States. We also saw the [22:04] Biden administration uh at the end of [22:07] its term put sanctions on Israeli [22:10] organizations on specific uh quote [22:12] unquote settlers and now the the United [22:14] Kingdom is saying that they're doing it [22:16] and the question is whether or not there [22:18] was going to be an avalanche of European [22:21] countries. This is going to be the [22:23] policy of all of Europe, right? So, we [22:25] already know that Spain is one of the [22:27] most anti-Israel countries and now uh [22:29] the United Kingdom, which used to be [22:31] again one of Israel's greatest allies, [22:33] France, uh very anti-Israel these days. [22:36] Uh but then there's these other major [22:38] countries like you're talking about uh [22:40] Germany, uh Italy, which are very [22:44] important countries right in the middle [22:46] of Europe. uh Germany perhaps the most [22:48] important country in all of Europe in [22:50] terms of the the strength of its economy [22:52] >> and also you you mentioned France which [22:54] is also very important uh country don't [22:57] forget that France has always been the [22:59] most anti-American country in Europe and [23:02] the one that is nowaday [23:05] you know the psychological issue which [23:07] is that they are very jealous of the [23:10] fact that we are able to bring the [23:13] Libanese government to a real discussion [23:16] about how to end it up with this with [23:21] this dictatorship of the something that [23:24] they were never able to do. And now we [23:27] will see at the end of the year when the [23:28] UN field is over what will happen there [23:32] because we have changed we have changed [23:35] the cards on the table. we Israel I mean [23:38] so [23:39] >> Lebanon was always seen by France as a [23:41] somewhat of a protectorate uh so to [23:44] speak and uh you know France w wanted to [23:47] try to be involved in the negotiations [23:51] between Israel and Lebanon for [23:53] normalization. Israel refused. And now [23:56] we saw that actually negotiations were [23:59] taking place between Israel and Lebanon [24:01] in your home country, Italy [24:04] specifically, because Israel felt like [24:06] Italy is a country that uh despite like [24:09] you said, it hedges a little bit on [24:10] Israeli policy, but it's a country that [24:12] you can work with. [24:14] >> Yeah, indeed. I think that you know what [24:18] is very important for Israel today is [24:22] to keep [24:25] a basin which includes the Medit the [24:28] Mediterranean Sea on its southern part [24:31] and part and part um of all the coast of [24:34] Italy up uh up to the end of Italy. [24:38] Well, let's look at some of the [24:39] countries. Like on the one hand, we were [24:41] talking in the beginning, you have this [24:42] Western Europe, you have uh [24:44] >> the Balkans, you have the B. [24:46] >> So, you're talking about Eastern Europe, [24:47] the Balkan states. Some of those include [24:50] >> Yeah. So, let's see. The Mediterranean [24:53] Sea, [24:53] >> right? So, we have [24:54] >> So, we have Greece, we have Greece, we [24:57] have Cyprus, we have uh we have [25:00] >> and these countries, by the way, just [25:01] Greece and Cypress. Well, hold on [25:03] before. But Greece and Cyprus [25:04] specifically important also because [25:06] there are shared natural gas [25:07] interestsdeed in the eastern [25:09] Mediterranean and [25:10] >> not only because of this also because [25:12] there are a natural border against [25:14] Turkey. This is another extremely [25:16] important factor because you know t [25:19] Turkey can do terrible things to Europe [25:22] and Turkey is the one that when there [25:24] was the the the Syrian war inside with [25:29] Assad was keeping uh the the immigrants [25:34] to Europe inside its borders threatening [25:37] Europe to let them go until sometimes it [25:40] did it open and close it open and close [25:42] just being a continuous threaten to to [25:44] to Europe. This is what it is. And it is [25:48] so also because of other important [25:50] reasons. For instance, because Erdogan [25:53] is one of if not the main very leader of [25:57] the Muslim Brotherhood, which now day [26:00] has a lot of power in Europe. So, you [26:03] know, it's extremely important that [26:05] Greece is there. Cyprus that has a [26:08] special reason to be against Turkey [26:11] because they half occupied it. occupies [26:14] northern suffer. So you have on the East [26:16] Med. [26:17] >> Yes. East Med. [26:18] >> Then you have the Balkan states like the [26:20] Czech Republic. [26:21] >> See, see Poland is such and such. Poland [26:25] comes and goes, [26:26] >> right? [26:26] >> Yeah. But [26:28] >> we lost uh Hungary. I mean we Hungary [26:30] was perhaps the greatest ally of Israel. [26:33] >> We haven't yet completely completely [26:35] lost it. We are in the middle. [26:37] >> Well, you had Victor Orban who who [26:40] removed Hungary from the International [26:42] Criminal Court. It was the only place [26:43] that Prime Minister Netanyahu felt like [26:45] he could land a plane and and he went [26:48] actually uh to to visit his great ally [26:51] Victor Orban. But Orban has lost the [26:53] election. You have Peter Maguar who won [26:56] the election specifically because he was [26:58] trying to bring Hungary closer to the [27:01] European Union. He was funded by George [27:02] Soros during the campaign and he [27:04] recently said that if Netanyahu would [27:06] land in Hungary that he would honor the [27:08] arrest warrant of the International [27:10] Criminal Court. So [27:12] >> at the moment you can see this like [27:14] this. [27:15] But I don't know because this guy is not [27:17] a leftist guy, [27:18] >> right? He's a conservative. [27:20] >> He's a conservative. [27:22] So we never know. He will also see what [27:25] is convenient for him. I think he's a [27:27] guy that is very much his convenience. [27:29] At the moment is not clear. As I told [27:31] you, Europe is just very much on a [27:33] seesaw. It's very much in the middle. [27:35] But still we can count of of a good [27:38] number of friends and we can see also [27:41] that you know also France can change [27:45] very quickly with the elections [27:46] >> right there's elections that are swing [27:48] in in all these democratic countries [27:50] >> that we have elections in many different [27:53] places. [27:55] >> How would you grade Netanyahu's uh [27:57] reaction to uh Miliban's statements and [28:01] England's moves? Look, the fact that we [28:04] react and react strongly either [28:07] Nathaniel and also Gideon Sar actually [28:09] he did his job because the decision was [28:12] his to close. I suppose I I'm not sure. [28:14] Anyhow, it's a government decision and [28:17] these are good steps. They they show [28:19] that just a line that I that I told you [28:22] about before. Look at us. See, because [28:24] we have suffered. Yes, we suffer. We are [28:27] in a bad difficult war that we still [28:30] have to win completely. But first, we [28:32] have already won on several side and on [28:35] several borders. As Netanyahu repeats, [28:38] we have become much stronger since the [28:41] start of the war. We have become much [28:42] stronger on every front [28:44] >> and our enemies have become much weaker [28:46] >> and that includes Iran, that includes [28:49] that includes kamas. [28:50] >> Exactly. So they they have become much [28:52] weaker. So we are stronger and think [28:55] about it because we are stronger and we [28:57] have no intention at all to leave the [29:01] this is the [29:02] >> to leave the Jewish communities in Judea [29:04] and Samaria over the green line. [29:06] >> Exactly. Exactly. Now here there is a [29:08] special struggle and here may be that we [29:12] have to move something with the asbara [29:14] because the fact that now a day Europe [29:18] thinks that uh the the Judean Samaria [29:23] that they call West Bank are illegal [29:27] illegally occupied is simply wrong. It's [29:30] not true. You know there are things that [29:32] have to be [29:33] >> right. was territories that were [29:35] illegally occupied by Jordan after the [29:38] war of independence from 1948 to 1967. [29:41] No countries in the world recognized the [29:43] Jordanian occupation except for two by [29:46] the way. One was Pakistan and the other [29:48] was the United Kingdom. Okay, England [29:51] recognized it but no other country [29:53] recognized [29:55] there was a Palestinian. There was no [29:56] Palestinian [29:57] >> and in 1967 Israel liberated Jude and [30:00] Samaria from Jordanian control. And in [30:02] 1994, Israel signed a peace agreement [30:05] with Jordan that ended their claims. [30:08] >> Yeah. [30:08] >> To Judea and Samaria. So, we have a [30:10] peace agreement with the country that [30:12] occupied it before, saying that they no [30:16] longer occupy it. And and even so, we're [30:20] still called occupiers. [30:21] >> Wait, there are there is also something [30:23] else. Either we like it or not, or it [30:26] was dictated dictated or not by false [30:30] concepts. conception still we have the [30:33] Oslo agreement so let's say that we want [30:36] to follow because they have never been [30:38] abolished okay even [30:39] >> right the Oslo Accords were signed [30:41] between Israel and the Palestinian [30:42] Authority in the early 90s which created [30:45] three zones areas A B and C areas A and [30:49] B are Palestinian controlled areas for [30:52] the most part B Israeli security can go [30:54] in and out but area C which is most of [30:57] the territory in Judea and Samaria is [30:59] territory that is under full Israeli [31:01] control and that as part of the signed [31:03] agreement with the Palestinian [31:05] Authority, it was brokered by Bill [31:06] Clinton and the United States. But even [31:08] despite that agreement, which which [31:10] states that Israel has full control over [31:13] all of Area C, the international [31:15] community, much of it still wants to [31:17] recognize Israeli presence in area C as [31:20] illegal. [31:20] >> So, so you see, so now, so you came back [31:22] to Europe. This is exactly what Europe [31:25] wants to do. Wants to dictate what we [31:28] have to do in area A, B and C which is [31:30] something that uh this is totally [31:33] illegal according to the international [31:36] agreements because uh the next step [31:38] after after this division after this [31:42] agreement is just to sit and talk. Now [31:44] that who is there that never wanted to [31:46] sit and talk and whenever they did they [31:48] just say no no and no the Palestinians. [31:50] So we are perfectly legal in all the [31:53] story. This is something that might be [31:56] uh presented but I always say after we [31:59] have presented the fact that that we are [32:02] legal then we always have to add and [32:05] either you believe it or not [32:09] we don't care. That's the other step. [32:11] >> I mean Fama you have a lot of experience [32:13] dealing with parliamentarians throughout [32:15] Europe. I also had was in the European [32:18] Union because every parliament every [32:21] member of parliament is part of the [32:23] delegation. So I was always there. [32:24] >> So what should Israel's policy toward [32:26] the European countries be? I mean how [32:29] how would you create a policy to improve [32:32] Israel standing in this most important [32:34] continent in the world which is Europe. [32:36] >> Make a map. Make a map. See who are the [32:39] enemies and who are the the friends and [32:42] who are the one in the middle. give a [32:45] lot of friendship, give give advantages, [32:49] scientific [32:50] and military and security [32:54] uh to the country that are good friend. [32:57] Put on the side [32:59] uh the one that hate you and just punish [33:02] them. There are so many way to do it and [33:06] just discuss with the one that are in [33:08] the middle. And don't forget also that [33:10] there is an a big agreement coming up [33:13] from India all over Asia. Okay. Passing [33:17] through [33:18] >> this is the IMC corridor. [33:19] >> Exactly. Bringing through Cyprus, [33:23] >> India, Middle East, European economic [33:26] corridor. [33:27] >> So, so you know if we are not there [33:29] nobody can be there. Europe cannot be [33:32] there. If we are not there. So do they [33:35] like it? If they like it, they like us. [33:38] >> Israel itself is going into a highly [33:42] consequential election uh at the end of [33:44] October. Do you think that any of the [33:47] other candidates, you know, understand [33:50] uh diplomacy uh understand how to relate [33:54] to Europe, understand the challenges of [33:56] foreign affairs uh the way that Israeli [33:59] Prime Minister Netanyahu understands it? [34:01] Look, this is really an overwhelming [34:03] question that as Elliot would have said, [34:06] I myself have made my choice. I mean, [34:09] uh, I've been voting liquid for a long [34:13] time. I think that this is the only big [34:17] party that gives us an assurance about [34:22] the continuation of a strong policy of [34:26] uh of defense which is something that we [34:30] we really need and also of deep commit [34:35] commit commitment [34:37] uh to these wonderful beautiful things [34:40] that is the the state of Israel in its [34:44] So you know the state of the Jews that [34:46] is the real and Nathaniel looks like [34:50] somebody that has a deep knowledge and [34:52] uh and the deep affection for that as [34:55] far as as far as I can understand. You [34:59] know I I see it from far. I see it from [35:01] what he sees from what he says and from [35:04] the way he expresses himself. [35:07] But I feel there this uh love for the [35:11] country. love for the country, uh, love [35:15] for the Jewish people, and I think that [35:18] this basic thing is something that, uh, [35:22] is the one I'm going to vote for. Well, [35:25] regardless of who wins the Israeli [35:27] elections, it is likely that there's [35:29] going to be significant uh challenges [35:31] both with regards to security, Israeli [35:34] defense, but also [35:35] >> I'm sure [35:36] >> certainly with regard to uh Israeli [35:38] diplomacy as well as you know telling [35:41] Israel's story winning on the uh [35:44] narrative battlefield. Famineer, thank [35:46] you so much for being with us. [35:47] >> Thank you.
