Transcript [00:00] Wherever you're listening in the world, [00:01] it's a pleasure to welcome you to [00:02] Israelcast, the podcast powered by [00:04] Jewish National Fund USA, your voice in [00:07] Israel. I'm Steven Shallowitz, and our [00:09] featured guest on this episode is [00:11] Katherine Paris Shagdim. She's the [00:13] executive director of the Institute for [00:15] Free Societies and chief policy adviser [00:17] at Stop the Hate UK. She's also the [00:20] author of several books, including her [00:22] latest, War against God: How Radical [00:25] Islamism Betrays Faith. and we urge you [00:27] to pick up a copy wherever you like to [00:29] buy your books. Katherine joins us now [00:31] on the line via Zoom from London, [00:33] England versus London, Ontario. [00:35] Katherine, welcome to the program. So [00:37] great to have you aboard. [00:38] >> Thank you very much. I'm very excited to [00:40] be here today. [00:42] >> Well, we did meet at the JPost [00:44] Conference 2026. And as soon as I heard [00:47] you and heard your story, I said, "We [00:49] got to get Katherine on Israel Cast." So [00:51] really glad that we're making this [00:52] happen. And listen, before we dive into [00:54] our conversation, I just want to remind [00:56] our wonderful Israel Cast community that [00:59] for over 125 years, Jewish National Fund [01:02] USA has been the premier philanthropic [01:04] movement for the land and people of [01:06] Israel. While best known for planting [01:08] trees in Israel, JNF USA contributes to [01:11] Israeli life in so many ways, including [01:13] community development in the negative in [01:15] the Galilee, preservation of heritage [01:17] sites, supporting people with [01:19] disabilities, connecting high school and [01:21] college students to Israel, which is [01:23] just so important, and also helping our [01:25] brothers and sisters in need following [01:27] the heinous October 7th terrorist [01:29] attack. To learn more and to see how you [01:31] can contribute, do visit jnf.org. Once [01:33] again, jnf.org. [01:35] And if you haven't done so already, we'd [01:37] love it if you subscribed, rated, and [01:39] reviewed us wherever you get your [01:41] podcast. Five stars, of course. And we'd [01:43] love it to if you shared the show within [01:45] your orbit. All right, with that, we [01:47] once again welcome Katherine Paris [01:49] Shagman to the program. Now, Katherine, [01:52] you have such a compelling background, [01:55] and I'd like you to first share really [01:57] your very unique life story with our [02:00] community so they can better understand [02:02] the perspective from which you're coming [02:05] and from which we're going to be having [02:06] our conversation today. [02:08] >> Sure. Okay. It's going to be a long [02:10] story. I'm going to try. [02:13] Um, [02:13] >> so in other words, everybody get a nice [02:16] beverage, adult or otherwise, buckle in. [02:19] >> Absolutely. in and Catherine, go ahead. [02:22] >> Thank you. So, I was born and raised in [02:24] Paris a long time ago. Uh cuz I'm a [02:27] dinosaur. Uh I had a very secular [02:31] upbringing. Um and I think where it's uh [02:35] it got very interesting for me in the [02:37] fact that I think I was uh as I as we [02:40] say in France uh I was sitting in [02:42] between two chairs in that my mother's [02:44] side was uh they were they survived the [02:48] shower. My grandfather was in the [02:49] resistance movement uh extremely proud [02:52] of his Judaism um a Zionist through and [02:56] through. Uh now my father Seafi from [02:59] Tunisia uh his parents had both survived [03:02] the camps in Tunisia. Um and because his [03:06] brother had died long before he was born [03:09] in the camp, uh my grandmother had um a [03:12] terrible time getting over the death of [03:14] her son. and my my father was I think [03:16] the uh the child of um you know the [03:18] second chance and that they were hoping [03:20] to rebuild or had been broken and stolen [03:23] away from them. Um and so my my father [03:26] was born in an environment I feel that [03:28] was very difficult for him and that he [03:31] was raised pretty much by his brother [03:32] and sister [03:33] >> and that my grandmother was um she [03:36] wasn't doing well. I mean it's quite [03:37] understandable [03:39] um and he hated being a Jew because of [03:42] it. He felt that everything that went [03:44] wrong uh in his parents' life and his [03:47] life was due to his Judaism. And so in [03:50] France, he had political ambition and [03:52] spent I think his entire life trying to [03:55] forget that he was a Jew. So it was very [03:57] difficult for me to kind of find myself [03:58] in this environment bearing in mind that [04:00] my mom died when I was 11. [04:03] >> So [04:03] >> I'm sorry. [04:04] >> Um it's I mean it's okay. uh you know [04:07] it's one of the things and so for me [04:10] growing up uh being put into boarding [04:12] school also was quite difficult because [04:14] I was thrown into an environment that [04:16] was uh extremely Christian and French um [04:20] I mean I was in France after all but it [04:22] was strange because I had you know that [04:24] coming up against spending my weekends [04:26] with my friends uh they were they were [04:28] all Jews so it was an interesting time I [04:30] think to try to find yourself and to be [04:32] completely honest with you I think I was [04:34] quite lost because my mom died, my [04:37] father remarried [04:39] uh with someone outside the community. [04:41] Uh I think it runs in the family [04:43] unfortunately. Uh I had only my [04:46] grandparents, you know, to to really [04:48] kind of um anchor me down into my [04:52] Jewishness and I was very proud of it, [04:53] but also very lost because I did not [04:55] understand who I was. And I think it has [04:57] a lot to do with not having my mom, [05:01] but thank God for my grandparents. [05:02] they're absolutely wonderful, but that I [05:04] lost them. Um, and so here I was in the [05:07] UK, um, trying to rebuild my life away [05:12] from my dad cuz we had our issues and I [05:15] met my future ex-husband and I [05:18] literally, you know, went from one [05:20] difficult time in my life to another. [05:22] Uh, he was a Sunni Muslim from Yemen, so [05:26] clearly I can't pick. [05:29] Um, and at at first he was uh what I [05:32] thought was a good man. Again, I think [05:34] that I had no idea what I was doing. I [05:36] was very young. I was 18 [05:39] and being raised pretty much by my [05:41] grandmother. I was taught [05:44] uh that you date seriously, you marry, [05:48] you have children. So, it's it was a [05:50] very I would say, you know, typical [05:52] setup and and so I thought that's what [05:54] you do. And uh I think I still think [05:57] that that's what you should do. But in [05:58] the same time I had no understanding of [06:01] that gap between culture and the fact [06:04] that we were sitting on very polar [06:05] opposites in terms of traditions, belief [06:08] system, uh ethos. Um I came to learn [06:12] that unfortunately many in the Islamic [06:15] world [06:16] have a fascination with death where we [06:19] celebrate life and we love life and we [06:22] want to protect it. I think that their [06:24] approach towards life is slightly [06:26] different and that they feel that the [06:29] ultimate show of faith is to sacrifice [06:32] your life. And I think there's something [06:34] beautiful about sacrificing your life to [06:37] save that of others to kill others. I'm [06:40] not sure unless it's done in [06:42] self-defense of other life, innocent [06:44] lives. But I guess that, you know, I had [06:46] to learn that the hard way. [06:48] >> Yeah. [06:48] >> And so I found myself in the Middle [06:50] East. I found myself in the Islamic [06:52] world. I found myself confronted with [06:54] radical Islam because as uh [06:57] >> where did you settle? Remind me. [06:59] >> So I was in London. So we got married in [07:01] London. Uh but then we moved to we moved [07:03] to Yemen. So we had a first try at Yemen [07:05] for about a year. [07:06] >> And we're talking about which year? [07:09] >> Uh it was back in 2004. 2003 we were in [07:12] Yemen. 2004 we came back. Uh but then I [07:15] had my daughter [07:17] and uh we went back out in Yemen. It was [07:20] in 2009 [07:22] was interesting and we stayed there for [07:24] 4 years and so I witnessed the whole [07:26] Arab Spring movement. Um, and I would [07:29] say I think after my daughter was born, [07:31] my ex-husband then became quite radical [07:34] in his views. And I think it had to do [07:36] with the fact that I refused to convert. [07:38] And I know that a lot of people have [07:41] been confused about that because it has [07:43] even in my Wikipedia they were saying [07:44] that I converted. I think because uh my [07:46] Wikipedia is wrong, by the way. and I [07:48] tried to have it fixed, but apparently [07:50] when I contacted the editor, they told [07:51] me that I wasn't equipped, and I'm [07:55] quoting them there, to uh to edit my own [07:58] bio. I was like, okay, well, I'm kind of [08:00] the concern party here, but never mind. [08:02] >> Just as a question, he still married you [08:06] knowing you were Jewish. [08:07] >> Yeah. Yeah, he he did know. He did know. [08:09] His very close family did know as well. [08:12] So, we're talking brother, sister, mom, [08:14] and dad. I mean it was his stepdad [08:16] because his father had died when he was [08:18] quite young too. And I think this is the [08:19] one thing that kind of connected us and [08:21] that I felt that he could understand you [08:23] know this um I mean I want to say [08:26] tragedy but I mean I know it happens [08:28] often but for me it was a tragedy. I [08:30] love my mom more than anything else in [08:31] the world. And um it was it left a scar [08:35] that I think took such a long time to [08:38] heal. And I only understood, you know, [08:40] what love felt like again when I had my [08:43] children. And I adore them like every [08:47] single Jewish mother in the world. I [08:48] think I had my son, then I had my [08:50] daughter, [08:50] >> right? And then so you had the two kids [08:52] and then what happened because you [08:54] ultimately left him. [08:56] >> Yeah, I did. I did. Thank God. I think [08:58] otherwise I think I would be dead. Um, [09:00] so I would say after my my daughter's [09:03] birth, my nightmare began. When I was in [09:05] Yemen, I was stuck. Um, because I wasn't [09:08] living without my children. And I was [09:11] naive enough to believe that my [09:14] passport, my French passport would [09:16] protect me and shield me from the [09:18] shenanigans and the horror of the Middle [09:20] East. Not really. way it did to a point [09:23] but [09:25] it would have been difficult for me I [09:27] think quite impossible to leave without [09:29] my children he would have let me go but [09:30] not with my not not with my children and [09:33] that wasn't going to happen and so I had [09:36] to bear you know things that were not so [09:39] nice I had to suffer through humiliation [09:42] daily humiliation for being Jewish his [09:44] family berated me bullied me um and it [09:47] became physical emotional all kinds of I [09:49] would say torture that you can imagine [09:51] than they've done. Uh I shielded my [09:54] children so they they knew nothing. Uh I [09:57] had to go to extreme lengths to teach [10:00] them because I had to be very careful [10:03] not to openly tell them that they were [10:05] Jews. Uh in that it could be dangerous [10:08] for them if they were, you know, to go [10:09] to school and to say it or to to talk to [10:11] other members of the family who did not [10:13] know. Everybody was under the assumption [10:14] that I had converted. It was the deal [10:17] that was struck in that he said, "If [10:19] you're not going to convert, at least [10:20] pretend so I don't have to be humiliated [10:22] by my family." So, I agreed to that. And [10:25] this charade literally allowed me, you [10:28] know, to to break into a world that I [10:32] then decided to dismantle. [10:34] And this this lie because um you know, [10:37] people have accused me to be deceitful, [10:39] but I'm thinking, look, this lie served [10:40] the purpose. I'm glad I did it and I [10:43] would not have it any other way. And if [10:44] people can't get over it, well, tough [10:46] luck. But I'm still proud of what I did. [10:48] Um, and so I use that lie to break into [10:52] the Islamic Republic of Iran and uh and [10:55] hopefully deal a deathly blow. I don't [10:58] know, but I guess time will tell, but I [11:02] did what I could. So um yeah, so it [11:04] wasn't look, it wasn't easy. It wasn't [11:06] easy at all. And I actually I have you [11:08] know I do you know when people say that [11:12] Jews and Muslim can cohabitate maybe to [11:15] an extent. Uh I have scars that tell me [11:17] otherwise. [11:19] Uh I still bear them proudly uh because [11:21] I said no. I said no and I stood my [11:24] ground and my my my ex-husband was not [11:26] impressed with me and he he let me know. [11:28] Um [11:30] >> how did you ultimately get out? [11:32] >> I I we came back to the UK. So the war [11:35] the war broke essentially. So when the [11:37] aspinter you know took over things went [11:40] really quickly. The the Houthi came back [11:42] from the mountains literally onto Sana [11:45] and uh you know there were fights [11:46] everywhere. So I've I've uh I've lived [11:48] through war. Uh it was an interesting [11:50] education. Um so I think that people [11:53] need to calm down a little bit when um [11:55] you know they so quickly call for war. [11:57] Living through one is not fun. Uh [11:59] Israelis would tell you. Uh and uh I I [12:03] saw the rise of the Houthies. I I've [12:05] seen how the Islamic Republic of Iran [12:07] and Turkey, interestingly enough, you [12:10] know, literally [12:11] um clued into Yemen and transformed it. [12:14] And it was a battle in between two [12:17] radical thoughts on the one side the [12:19] Muslim Brotherhood, on the other one the [12:21] RSGC. Um, and I think this is one, you [12:25] know, when you start to see the [12:27] formulation of terror and how people's [12:30] history has been rewritten because it [12:31] was, uh, and you can see it today. So, [12:34] North Yemen, and this is something that [12:36] people don't know often, is majority zi [12:39] Islam, which is technically speaking, [12:42] technically speaking, Shia, but so close [12:44] to Sunni Islam that they behave the same [12:46] way, they pray the same way, and more or [12:48] less hold the same views on the [12:50] scriptures. Now when Yemen decided to [12:54] get rid of Ali Abdalah [12:57] the former president of Yemen who was [12:59] Zidi himself because people tend to [13:01] forget trying to frame you know the rise [13:03] of the Houthi as a kind of resistance [13:05] movement. No the president the former [13:07] president was himself a Zi but he was [13:09] very close to the Saudis and lived his [13:13] Zadism I would say like like as a Sunnis [13:15] and no one cared in Yemen. Not really. [13:19] Um but Islam um sorry the Islamic [13:21] Republic of Iran saw an opportunity in [13:24] that in this um desire that the Houthi [13:28] had for power to utilize this weaponize [13:32] it and destroy Yemen. And suddenly Yemen [13:35] went from being I would say a regular [13:38] Sunni society uh that was very [13:41] traditional but women were starting to [13:44] have more rights and the ability to work [13:46] and the ability to do great many things [13:48] because Ali Abdah was I would say a [13:50] feminist and people may laugh but he was [13:53] he truly was changing the country for [13:55] the better but he was doing this very [13:57] slowly because he understood that Yemen [14:00] society was not ready and you had to [14:01] push back from the Muslim Brotherhood. [14:03] So he had to be very careful. [14:05] >> Yeah. I want to talk about Yeah. in just [14:07] in just some in in a moment because you [14:09] you invoked [14:10] >> Iran. And so we're going to get into the [14:12] tentacles of Iran in just a moment. But [14:15] just to close out your story um very [14:17] briefly, your husband, your ex-husband [14:19] is where right now. [14:20] >> Uh I I believe he's in the UK, but I [14:23] don't know. Look, [14:24] >> okay, [14:24] >> we had a la a last standoff almost 10 [14:28] years ago. and uh he you know he he [14:32] wanted to take my son away and I told [14:34] him over my dead body because my [14:35] daughter he wasn't interested just to [14:38] tell you the kind of mentality uh and [14:40] she's a beautiful wonderful girl so the [14:42] idea that anyone would want to leave her [14:44] is beyond me um but he he did um so I [14:49] told him that if he so much took a step [14:52] towards my son it would be the last one [14:54] he believed me I'm glad that he did [14:56] because I was deadly serious [14:58] uh he walked out that door and never [15:00] came back uh because I didn't want him [15:02] to. But he also never uh get in touch [15:05] with his children because that that was [15:06] the one thing I wasn't going to stand in [15:08] his way for because his children and I [15:11] wanted to believe that he wanted to be a [15:13] father. But clearly not. What he wanted [15:15] was for his children to submit to his [15:18] will and uh to break me. He didn't he [15:21] didn't do either of those things. And [15:24] back in Yemen, I had to teach my [15:27] children Judaism through storytellings, [15:29] which is not a shock because we do this [15:31] anyway. Uh, but I basically rewrote our [15:34] stories as fairy tales because I had to [15:36] find a cunning way, you know, to um [15:41] to hide our Judaism, [15:43] >> right? [15:44] >> Because it wasn't safe. [15:46] >> Fascinating story truly, Katherine. Um, [15:50] someone is going to listen to this and [15:51] make a movie out of it, I suspect. But [15:54] in the meantime, lots of subjects to [15:57] touch base on and to delve into with [15:59] you. And something that we've actually [16:00] highlighted here on Israel Cast with [16:03] people like Hussein Abdul Hussein from [16:05] the FTD is that the Arab world and the [16:09] Muslim world, they are not monolithic. [16:12] And I would love you to share your [16:14] perspective on that before we do a [16:16] little bit of a deep dive into Iran into [16:20] Gaza and Judea Sumeriia and some of the [16:23] other issues throughout the region, [16:25] terrorism as well. So can you talk about [16:27] how the region and the Muslim world are [16:29] not monolithic? [16:31] >> Okay. So it's I'm glad that you're [16:34] bringing that up because a lot of the [16:36] time people think it's just like one big [16:37] lump. [16:38] >> Yeah. It's like a one-sizefits-all. [16:40] >> Yeah. It's not. It's not at all. And you [16:42] have you have a lot of uh iteration I [16:44] would say of [16:46] Islamic culture because it is still [16:47] Islamic culture. But look in the Middle [16:49] East you have the you have the leant and [16:51] it's I think they are they are they [16:55] stand alone I think in terms of the [16:57] culture and they are themselves sitting [16:59] in between two chairs because there's [17:00] the cool you know the cool of the west [17:02] and this desire to be modern forward [17:06] facing uh appreciate life enjoy it and [17:09] try and actually have ambitions of your [17:10] own outside I would say the shackle of [17:14] their family they have a very [17:15] interesting culture throughout and it's [17:17] iterated differently But it's always [17:19] very very heavy where their family and [17:22] the weight of what you know society [17:25] dictates in terms of the norms is so [17:28] heavy that they cannot get out of it and [17:31] it's always what are people going to say [17:33] and I think in particular in the 11th is [17:35] very heavy and they have to perform for [17:38] their family and for their society and [17:40] Islam was an import [17:43] society and I think that they're still [17:44] kind of living [17:46] on what it used to [17:48] and what their culture used to be and [17:50] they have been rewritten. Um, if you [17:52] look at Syria for example, it was [17:54] majority Christian up until [17:57] the Islamic Republic showed up and other [18:00] dictators showed up. Um, Yemen was also [18:03] transformed a great deal like I told [18:05] you. um you have different Islamic [18:08] movements, different iteration of the [18:11] Islamic thought and Yemen has been [18:12] radicalized. And unfortunately, this is [18:15] something that I would pin on the Muslim [18:17] Brotherhood and the Islamic Republic of [18:20] Iran. Why? Because a long time ago, they [18:22] decided that Islam would be weaponized [18:24] beyond the text itself. That is quite [18:26] violent. And I'm not afraid to say it, [18:28] but it is violent. And it's um it's [18:32] defending, I would say, worldview that I [18:34] don't abide by. people are free to do [18:36] so. I don't agree with it. [18:38] >> So there are people we should say in the [18:42] Muslim world that [18:45] think like you and me that just just [18:47] want to live their lives that that want [18:49] to have a pluralistic democratic [18:52] society. However, to borrow from [18:55] Chairman Mao is our listeners may know [18:57] it's one of my favorite expressions [18:58] political power grows from the barrel of [19:00] a gun. And so oftentimes they are just [19:03] afraid and I can understand to rise up [19:07] or to speak out because in many of these [19:09] societies you can speak out. [19:11] >> No, you cannot. And uh more [19:13] problematically [19:14] again the weight of the family because [19:16] there's always this fear that should [19:18] they step outside the bubble that was [19:20] you know designed for them um their [19:22] family will pay the will pay the price [19:24] of that. [19:24] >> Will pay the price. Yeah. [19:25] >> Yeah. Will pay the price for that. And [19:27] it's it's it's sad because I have seen [19:29] look the Middle East is a beautiful [19:30] place [19:31] >> uh with a lot of beautiful people and [19:33] I'm not I'm just about the physical side [19:35] but I'm talking about people you know [19:36] who understand generosity uh who have [19:39] live through poverty and still remain [19:41] kind. I'm not saying that it's a [19:43] horrible place. It's not. It has become [19:45] horrible because people are being [19:47] shackled. People have been enslaved and [19:50] I'm talking about the enslavement of the [19:51] mind that we never talk about. And it's [19:54] also the body. You know, women are being [19:57] forced to conform [19:59] to an attire, a dress code that [20:02] disappears them. And I know that because [20:05] I had to wear it. And it's an experience [20:07] that I don't wish on anybody because the [20:10] longer you you wear this this veil and [20:12] whether it's, you know, I wasn't wear [20:14] the full one, but in Yemen, you have to [20:16] cover. And people will argue it's not [20:19] legally you don't have to, but if you [20:20] don't, you get molested. So, you know, [20:22] you have a choice of, you know, going [20:23] home safely or or not. I chose to wear [20:27] it because I wanted to um you know, keep [20:29] my body for myself. Thank you very much. [20:31] Um and it's a terrible fate for women. [20:34] You cannot have a single original [20:37] thought. You cannot walk alone. You [20:40] cannot travel without your husband being [20:43] there or your father, your brother, your [20:44] somebody. Um they have to ask for [20:47] authorization to go to work. It's not a [20:49] fun life. And people would say, "Oh, [20:50] it's a moral one." I disagree. Let [20:52] people live their lives and decide what [20:54] they want for themselves so that they [20:56] can, you know, become who they truly [20:58] are. Let them explore, you know, have an [21:01] inner life that is that exists beyond [21:04] the weight of the family. But they don't [21:06] allow that. [21:07] >> Right? Let's move on now to the Islamic [21:10] Republic of Iran and the structure, the [21:14] reach of Thran's networks across media, [21:17] finance, the proxy movements. What do [21:20] you think? I know it's a rather big [21:21] question, Katherine, but what do you [21:23] think we should know that we don't know [21:26] or that we're not told or something at [21:28] least that we should really be paying [21:30] more attention to when it comes to that? [21:33] >> Okay, I'm I'm going to talk about two [21:34] things. Um the first one is that a long [21:39] time ago, so back in the 1970s, [21:42] um Romania understood one thing is that [21:45] as a as a Shia cleric, he had to build a [21:48] bridge between the Sunni world and the [21:51] Shia world. If he was going to survive, [21:54] I would say his takeover of Iran because [21:57] Iran, Persia has been completely taken [21:59] over. And we talking about colonization [22:01] here. Iranians are under occupation by [22:04] the Islamic Republic of Iran. Now this [22:08] bridge he realized was going to be [22:11] anti-semitism and anti-anism. Why? [22:14] Because unfortunately anti-semitism [22:16] comes naturally to the Middle East. Uh [22:18] whether Christians or Muslim by the way. [22:20] Uh it is something that has been taught [22:22] to them. I don't know if they put [22:23] something in the water but it's a [22:25] reality and I can tell you because I was [22:27] there and I have suffered from it. Uh, [22:30] and I've have heard people say horrible, [22:31] horrible things courtesy of Alazer. You [22:34] know, it's like this poison and it's [22:36] drip, drip, drip every day. And people [22:39] are being brainwashed into having this [22:42] one single mind frame regarding Israel. [22:46] And we are as Jews the source of all [22:50] evil [22:51] >> according to them. [22:53] >> According to them, yes. Uh, of course [22:55] we're not, but anyway, [22:56] >> I don't need to tell you that. Um, and [22:58] so they decided that they were going to [23:00] combine two interesting ideas, uh, [23:03] antiism and anti-semitism with Palestine [23:06] because they understood too that to buy [23:10] themselves favor into the Sunni world, [23:12] they had to embrace a cause that was [23:13] dear to the Sunni world. and Palestine [23:16] came about and they decided to say, "Oh, [23:18] we're going to put our little hooks into [23:19] it and transform this one conflict [23:23] between two people into something that [23:25] is biblical or Quranical. I don't know [23:28] if it's a word." And they decided to to [23:31] weaponize that. So Palestine became an [23:33] interesting thought in that now in the [23:36] Arab street they equate being a good [23:39] Muslim with being pro Palestinian and [23:42] anti-Israeli [23:44] and anti-Semitic. And it's interesting [23:46] because now this it's almost a cult of [23:50] anti-ionism in that again to reach the [23:54] the epitom of faith and to show piety [23:57] you need to be equally anti anti-ionist. [24:00] So do you understand the predicament [24:01] that we find ourselves in in that we [24:03] would need to divide those two thoughts [24:05] to even have a chance to make them [24:07] understand that we are number one not [24:08] the enemy and number two together is [24:10] better because killing each other is [24:12] never the solution and violence doesn't [24:15] lead should not lead the way and yet [24:17] they do they embrace it because it's [24:19] being fed [24:21] people are being literally slaughtered [24:24] to the altar of men's ambition in that [24:26] again the Muslim Brotherhood is doing [24:28] the same thing understanding that they [24:30] are in competition [24:31] with the ambitions of the Islamic [24:34] Republic of Iran. So those two dogmas [24:38] are fighting for space in the Middle [24:40] East and using us [24:42] as canon folder. So it's it's um it's a [24:45] wonderful place to be in but this is the [24:48] reality and this is something that is [24:50] not often discussed because people I [24:52] think get caught up in the uh the [24:54] details but it started there and we have [24:57] to we have to go back to it and again [24:59] and I won't insist on this. We need to [25:01] understand that we would need to [25:02] separate the notion that in order to be [25:05] a good Muslim you have to hate on the [25:06] Jews and wish them death. This is not a [25:09] way to live your life. And um and I [25:11] think fortunately for us, you know, [25:13] Israel is very much there to defend us [25:16] and I thank them for that. Uh but we [25:19] need to we need to get out of this cycle [25:22] of hatred uh and desire to exist through [25:25] the extinction of the other. And I'm not [25:27] talking about us because we don't wish [25:29] death on anybody, but Muslims and I [25:32] would say those in the Middle East who [25:34] want Israel gone need to learn that [25:36] number one, it's not going to happen. [25:37] Number two, why would you want to? [25:40] >> Yeah. Can you though do a little bit of [25:43] a deep dive into these tentacles that [25:46] Thran has throughout the region and the [25:49] philosophy that they're really spewing [25:51] out? In a previous conversation, we were [25:54] talking about the sexual violence, for [25:56] example. That's something that you've [25:58] been very, very outspoken about, and I [26:01] want you to share that with our [26:02] >> audience because I don't think people [26:04] really understand that. No, they don't. [26:07] Uh, and you know, it took me a really [26:09] long time to want to talk about this [26:10] because it's it's not a nice subject. [26:12] It's not something, especially as a [26:13] woman, I I don't want to I don't want to [26:16] talk about those things. It's not [26:17] doesn't make me feel good. But I've [26:19] witnessed things in [26:20] >> But it's happening and it needs to light [26:23] needs to be shed on it. [26:24] >> Absolutely. And and I want to I want to [26:27] look if anything I I wish that number [26:30] one those victims don't see themselves [26:32] as victims but survivors of something [26:34] not meant to survive for that they [26:36] should be proud. Um I wish for society [26:39] to be a bit more tolerant of people who [26:41] have undergone those horrors because [26:42] they are horrors [26:44] and that shame cannot lead the bus. [26:47] Honestly, it's not a stigma and I think [26:50] that people the who have been victim of [26:52] sexual violence should lead proudly [26:54] because again they have some survive [26:56] something that is soul crushing that was [26:58] intended to extinguish the light. So it [27:01] would be a shame if we were to judge [27:02] them on that. [27:03] >> Right? [27:03] >> That said, so when I was in uh when I [27:06] was in Yemen, I started to witness [27:08] and I couldn't understand exactly what [27:10] it was, but I saw how um society started [27:14] to change in that I felt that family was [27:16] being were being broken up um and people [27:19] became paranoid and they became violent [27:22] and I I couldn't put my finger on it and [27:24] I was on I was I was under the [27:25] impression that maybe Islam was teaching [27:27] them that it wasn't that. And then when [27:30] I went to Iran, I actually discovered [27:32] because there is a very interesting [27:34] department at the heart of the [27:35] intelligence services in Iran that is [27:38] dedicated to the study of sexual [27:40] violence. [27:42] Yes. So this is this is bad because when [27:44] a regime when a structure political [27:47] structure spend [27:49] millions of dollars in the study of [27:51] sexual violence, you know, they're going [27:52] to want to use it. And so they have they [27:54] have found for example that the threat [27:57] of rape is more effective on women than [28:00] it is on men. So if you want to subdue a [28:03] woman, threaten threatening her with [28:05] rape is more potent than actually raping [28:06] her. [28:08] For men, it's the opposite. So you have [28:11] to rape a man in order to subdue him and [28:12] to break him and it works. And what they [28:14] do in Iran, for example, just to give [28:16] you an understanding of what happens in [28:18] the proxies. So we're talking Hamas, the [28:20] Houthis, Hezbollah, all of them they [28:23] will take people. So as you know uh you [28:26] have the RSGC, the revolution guard and [28:28] then you have besiege. Besiege are the [28:30] voluntary forces and people join them [28:32] because they want to have certain [28:34] privileges like access to healthcare the [28:37] ability to have a passport to leave [28:38] Iran, the ability to go to university [28:41] and so they join. They don't necessarily [28:43] abide by the rules of the regime or [28:45] believe in them but they want to join so [28:46] because they want their family to have a [28:48] better life. [28:50] Certain people are being well not [28:52] certain people everyone is being I would [28:54] say psychologically profiled and then [28:57] those people they feel could be agents [29:00] of chaos or you know those disruptors [29:04] of um of the dictatorship would have to [29:08] be broken and sometime they just choose [29:10] to because they want to. So they would [29:12] grab you and they would sexually abuse [29:14] you, record it, tape it, and then it [29:17] would go on for month and month and [29:18] month. And they would do horrors that I [29:20] don't I don't even want to speak about. [29:23] And um they will one day tell you, do [29:26] you want it to stop? Obviously, you're [29:28] going to say yes. So what they do, [29:30] they'll tell you, well now I want you to [29:32] pick someone, pick a victim, and then [29:34] you're going to do onto that person what [29:36] we've done to you. So you become both [29:40] the victim of sexual violence and the [29:42] perpetrator of So you become someone's [29:44] nightmare and they do this because it [29:46] breaks a person's psyche [29:47] >> in Iran [29:49] >> in Iran but they do this they do this [29:52] all of them are doing it so I'm not [29:54] saying that it's a general like behavior [29:57] but it happens very often too often and [30:01] I'm not a lawyer but I would say that [30:02] those are amounts of crimes against [30:04] humanity because you are destroying [30:06] people's life and you are destroying [30:07] little boys and little girls because [30:09] yes, not only adults and it's the most [30:12] despicable thing. Now, when I was in [30:14] Iran, the second time I was there, [30:17] because they always like to do the [30:18] carrot and the stick. So, the first time [30:20] I went to Iran, I met with it was [30:23] supposed to be, you know, the the [30:25] privilege of a lifetime. I don't think [30:27] it was, but I'm glad that I met the man [30:29] because I I I discovered that he was a [30:32] raging narcissist. And I know it's a [30:34] thing on social media. Everyone is a [30:36] narcissist but truly and I think he was [30:37] a sociopath. [30:38] >> Ayatollah. [30:40] >> Yes. So I met him before he died and I'm [30:42] glad that he is. [30:45] Now the second time like I said they [30:48] wanted to do the stick and scare me so I [30:51] would know and this is verbatim what we [30:54] do to the enemies of God. And they took [30:56] me to Evan Prison because it's a little [30:58] space in Evan Prison that you can visit [30:59] and it's like a tourist I don't know [31:01] tourist attraction. They want to show [31:03] you uh what was done under the the the [31:06] late char because they love to you know [31:08] to perpetrate propaganda [31:11] and um they introduced me to um to a [31:13] woman who who was guarding um the female [31:16] section of prison and she she took me [31:19] into a room a video room and it was uh [31:22] you know I felt like I was in the 1980s [31:24] movie where you have those very thick [31:26] screens and it was a big grainy and [31:27] pixelated and all kinds of like [31:30] recording devices [31:32] and on the screens and they forced me to [31:34] watch and sat there uh the most horrors. [31:38] It was a nightmare what they were doing [31:40] on two people, little girls, little [31:42] boys, old men, women, uh, men. And it [31:45] was I, you know, I I looked at this, [31:47] thank God there was, I mean, the sound [31:49] was there, but they kind of mutated [31:50] towards the end because I couldn't take [31:52] it and they forced me to sat there and I [31:54] can tell you that this is ingrained in [31:56] my mind and I had to push it down [31:59] because you can't live with it. And um [32:03] when I've seen some of the footage of [32:04] October 7th, I heard the same screams [32:07] and I I just I broke [32:10] because you can't you can't on on hear [32:13] this. It's the most devastating thing [32:16] because I could you can hear in people's [32:18] voice and they scream that their soul is [32:19] cracking, you know, and this is what [32:22] they're doing. Um, and I can tell you [32:24] that after watching those uh those [32:26] images, I decided to never ever abandon [32:31] uh those people. And I I wanted to do [32:34] everything I could to prevent any horror [32:37] to befall Israel because if those hordes [32:40] are coming to us, they're going to have [32:41] to be stopped and we have to do it. And [32:44] also, I thought of my children. I don't [32:45] want them to live in a world where that [32:47] is possible. uh in a culture that would [32:50] even [32:51] conceptualize that kind of horror as as [32:54] a method of resistance. [32:56] It's the most abominable thing. Those [32:59] people need to be avenged and I believe [33:01] in justice. Those criminals need to be [33:03] tried for crimes against humanity. What [33:04] they have done across the Middle East, [33:06] not just in Iran, might it be Lebanon, [33:09] Syria, Iraq, [33:12] Yemen, those are horrors beyond words [33:15] genuinely. And it's not just a woman's [33:18] game. Men too are being abused. And [33:20] there's no discrimination there. I think [33:22] this is the only place and time that the [33:25] regime doesn't discriminate. [33:27] >> Why are they doing it though? I mean, [33:29] what's their [33:30] >> break society? Because they have found [33:32] that the greatest weapon of colonization [33:34] is that of the mind. Because if you are [33:37] broken in in mind [33:41] and eventually spirit, you cannot fight [33:43] the invader and you will accept the [33:45] faith of the invader. And this is what [33:47] they have done. Think about it. When you [33:49] are broken like this and you still exist [33:51] within your family, a father with [33:53] withdrawal, stigma, fear, shame. A woman [33:56] will not be able to love her children [33:58] the way she should. Not because she [34:00] doesn't love them or because she does, [34:01] she's broken. And so the trauma will be [34:04] passed on. And if you break a family, [34:06] you break a community. If you break a [34:08] community, you you render society [34:11] void. And then the country, the nation [34:14] loses its um its spirit, its identity [34:17] because people are withdrawing behind [34:18] trauma. And this is what they have tried [34:21] to do to us on October 7. They wanted to [34:23] interrupt the line because Judaism as [34:26] you know is passed on through the [34:27] mother. They wanted to interrupt in [34:28] solid the line. What they don't [34:30] understand is that there is a light [34:31] about the Jewish people that will never [34:33] be distinguished. But this is what they [34:35] they they attempted to do. Thank God we [34:38] don't see sexual abuse as [34:42] something dirty and that the person is [34:43] less because of it. No, you survived it [34:46] and your family will love you just as [34:48] much, maybe harder and you will heal and [34:50] you will survive it because you are an [34:53] innocent. You have done nothing. People [34:55] have done it to you. But they don't [34:57] understand. They don't understand the [34:59] concept of Judaism. They don't [35:00] understand the pride and the love that [35:03] we have for one another in the Jewish [35:05] world. [35:05] >> Yeah. And I I wanted you to share that [35:08] to connect the dots so that people [35:10] understand that it's the Islamic [35:13] Republic of Iran exporting that [35:16] >> to the region through their process [35:19] >> and they're doing it to their own [35:20] people. [35:21] >> Yes. But I'm going to tell you [35:22] something. They're also doing it to the [35:24] West. And this is something that I [35:25] wanted to to to brush upon with you. If [35:28] you look at the the Pakistani grooming [35:31] gangs and I'm sure you've heard of it in [35:32] the [35:33] >> Pakistani once again the Pakistani [35:35] grooming gangs. Yes, I have heard of [35:36] them. Yes. And I've been following that [35:38] story. [35:39] >> Horrific. [35:40] >> I know it is horrific but you cannot you [35:42] have to connect the dots correctly. [35:44] >> Why don't you share what those grooming [35:46] gangs are all about for anyone that [35:47] isn't familiar with them? [35:49] >> Sure. So I'm going to it's going to be [35:51] very brief but basically what they do. [35:53] So you have gangs of men and women [35:55] because women are covering for the [35:56] crimes of men, [35:58] kidnapping and grooming, molesting, [36:02] raping young Christian girls. And they [36:04] choose white girls. Why? Because they're [36:05] trying to break society. Britain and [36:08] other countries, by the way. And I'm [36:10] sure it's happening in the in the US and [36:12] in Canada and everywhere that the light [36:14] touches pretty much. Uh because again, [36:16] they want to break society. They want to [36:18] break you. when they use rape and drugs [36:21] to break into societies and again [36:24] destroy the individual. So the country [36:27] is just ripe for a takeover and it [36:29] sounds mad because we don't function you [36:32] know on this frequency but it is the [36:34] reality that we are confronted with and [36:36] it's time for us to look at it correctly [36:38] and to say do we want to save ourselves [36:41] or do we want to give up and the west [36:43] unfortunately has given up but they need [36:46] I mean it's not too late um we need to [36:48] do something you can't allow for young [36:51] lives to be interrupted because one [36:53] maniac decided to do [36:56] Katherine, can you explain to me because [36:57] you're living in the UK, [36:59] >> what measures are being taken to disband [37:02] these uh grooming gangs in the UK [37:04] because this has been going on for years [37:06] and years and there's thousands and [37:08] thousands of girls that have been um [37:10] >> tens of thousands. You're talking over [37:12] the span of 20 years. [37:14] >> Yeah. [37:15] >> Do you understand? And those those girls [37:18] have have uh I don't know. I don't even [37:20] know how do you survive something like [37:21] this? I don't understand it. And they [37:22] are so brave. And I am so amazed and in [37:25] awe of these women to have the ability [37:27] to speak up after people have done that [37:29] to you uh with a society that ignores [37:32] you that calls you a liar [37:36] >> and that dismisses their pain. [37:38] >> But you know you need public individuals [37:40] in the United Kingdom to uh to call this [37:43] out and to bring light to it. I mean [37:45] it's absolutely shocking. [37:47] >> Rupert Low, I think has been the one [37:50] politician in the UK. he's an MP [37:54] uh who has actually used his own money [37:56] to um to do an inquiry to an open [37:59] inquiry because the government literally [38:00] vetoed it and I don't I don't want to [38:02] know the reason and I don't want to [38:03] discuss them but whoever stands in the [38:05] way of the truth in those matters is for [38:08] me [38:10] >> I don't know I'm not going to say the [38:11] word but not much [38:12] >> right [38:12] >> I'm going to I'm going to leave it at [38:14] that [38:14] >> well in any event and I don't want to [38:16] get off off topic there but I think the [38:18] whole point was that um Iran on has [38:22] exported this just horrific horrific [38:25] practice not only to the Middle East but [38:28] as you pointed out it is also permeated [38:30] into the West and we've seen it in the [38:32] grooming gangs in the United Kingdom. So [38:35] God forbid it's a coming attraction to [38:37] any other country uh where it doesn't [38:40] exist and perhaps it does exist in more [38:42] countries than we know about but no [38:43] one's really talking about it. So that [38:45] was really the point of just bringing it [38:47] up right now. And as it relates to [38:50] October 7th and what we saw, the [38:52] atrocities on October 7th, I feel like [38:55] we can do a whole conversation just [38:56] about Iran. And we'll have to have you [38:58] back for that because again, you have a [39:01] very intimate connection to Iran and [39:03] some of the top leadership that you've [39:05] met. But in the interest of time, I just [39:07] want to move on, Katherine, and talk a [39:09] little bit about the Muslim Brotherhood [39:10] then and their infiltration into uh [39:14] Middle East society and also into the [39:16] West. [39:18] >> So the Muslim Brotherhood is a whole [39:20] different beast and what they've done. [39:22] Uh but actually, do you know it's it's [39:25] important to understand that actually [39:26] the Islamic Republic is the Shia version [39:29] of the Muslim Brotherhood. So again, you [39:32] have two dogma that are quite similar. [39:34] um they have a very concept of the world [39:37] is slightly different in that they want [39:38] to bring a different type of reality but [39:40] still very radical so you know pick your [39:43] poison uh the Muslim Brotherhood likes [39:45] to break into society by offering goods [39:48] and services they're very good at that [39:51] and uh they had this thing in Yemen [39:53] running that was called bread for [39:54] education [39:56] so basically they understood [39:58] that uh you know the best way into po's [40:00] family's heart was feeding them and so [40:03] they were telling them, send your kids [40:04] to school, come back with a meal, and [40:07] we'll feed the the child, which on the [40:09] face of it is uh, you know, it's it's [40:11] humanitarian cause. It's good. You're [40:13] feeding a child, giving an education, [40:15] wonderful, except that the education [40:18] that was given to the child was not, but [40:21] was rather indoctrination. [40:22] >> And so they buy themselves little [40:24] soldiers. And they make sure uh, for [40:27] example, to uh to put their hands on [40:29] orphans because it's a lot easier. They [40:31] don't have a parent to guide them. they [40:33] don't have the love and affection of a [40:34] mother. Um and so you know the child are [40:36] then sold on to be child soldiers or [40:38] worse. Um this is what they do and they [40:41] infiltrate [40:43] state institution by using or actually I [40:45] would say subverting a democratic [40:48] institutions and it's like a slow [40:51] poison. They're very very nefarious, [40:54] very insidious in the way that they [40:55] proceed. Uh in the UK I see it all the [40:58] time. I mean again I don't want to get [41:01] political but all our institution [41:03] political institutions have been broken [41:05] into the media I mean the BBC I think is [41:08] the biggest example possible they can't [41:10] even bring themselves to say that Hamas [41:11] is a terrorist organization [41:13] uh they call them resistant fighters I [41:16] don't understand you know where the [41:18] resistance is but no matter [41:20] um and they they want they want to [41:23] destroy society to rebuild it to their [41:25] image this is essentially it and when [41:27] they tell you oh we Well, you know, a [41:29] democratic force. No, it's all about, [41:32] you know, the pyramid. It's all about [41:34] the great leader. Whether you call him a [41:36] supreme leader or an imam, it doesn't [41:38] matter. They want to rule the world. And [41:40] this is the mad part is that they [41:42] understood that there's um there's a col [41:45] colonial [41:47] theme running through the Quran. [41:49] Um, and so they wanted to weaponize it, [41:52] thinking, "Hey, we want the world to bow [41:54] to our God because I don't believe we [41:57] have the same one. It's Michael." Uh, [42:01] and so they want they want us to bow. [42:04] And I mean, I think that, you know, the [42:05] Jews of the Middle East will tell you [42:06] that, you know, we were demis we were [42:08] forced to bow to their rules. They want [42:10] to do that to everyone. And I'm talking [42:12] about the radicals. I'm not talking [42:13] about, you know, Muslims in general. But [42:16] they again what they have done is they [42:17] have picked and choose what to take from [42:20] the Quran and weaponize it to the very [42:23] extreme. And this is what they do. And [42:25] they do it so well because they doing it [42:27] with a veneer of respect, understanding, [42:31] and they claim love for other people and [42:34] other faith. It's not. I have seen it. I [42:37] was beaten up to an inch of my life so [42:40] that you know I would I would convert to [42:42] to Islam and I refused time and time [42:44] again. But I had to say that I was [42:46] Muslim because when I [42:50] when I came out in the times of Israel [42:52] and say, "Hey, I'm a Jew and I did what [42:54] I did." Uh, you know, I didn't know what [42:57] people would say because I mean, one, [43:00] they could call me an apostate because [43:01] they would say, "Oh, she she decided to [43:03] to revert back to Judaism, therefore we [43:05] can kill her, or she lied the whole time [43:07] and she's also an apostate." So, I [43:08] didn't know what to say, so I said [43:10] nothing. And the BBC lend me in it. [43:12] landed me in it because they were like, [43:13] "Oh, we heard." And I was like, "Oh, [43:15] fantastic. Now it's live TV. Great. [43:17] Thank you very much." Uh, and I think [43:19] that's what they wanted for was for a [43:21] crazy person, a lone wolf, to come and [43:23] get me. Still here. Thank God. [43:26] >> Thank God you're still here. Well, [43:28] moving on into the region. We talked a [43:31] little bit about the tentacles of Thran. [43:33] I'd love to talk about the tentacles of [43:35] Qatar and [43:38] their activities, not only in the Middle [43:41] East, but also how they've translated [43:43] and cascaded to the rest of the world. I [43:46] mean, we see the impact of what they've [43:48] done here on our shores in the United [43:50] States. [43:52] >> Well, okay, I'm going to bring it down [43:53] to like the the very core what they do. [43:57] Whereas Iran, I mean the regime in Iran [43:59] uses violence, rape and drug to burden [44:02] society. Qatar is more delicate. They do [44:05] education. So they will invest hundreds [44:09] of billions, not millions, billions and [44:12] they have done it in America of dollars [44:14] in education in healthare systems. They [44:18] will literally get into your living room [44:21] through the media uh and to drip poison [44:24] into your into your child's mind and [44:26] your mind and your family's mind until [44:28] they get you. They surround you and they [44:31] subdue you or they break you. It's [44:34] either or. And you can see it. And what [44:36] they do is that they push and both do [44:39] something quite interesting is I call it [44:40] the boiling of the frog [44:42] where they push the limit of the [44:44] acceptable. Not so much that you would [44:47] react so violently because you know [44:50] otherwise you may be called you know [44:52] irrational because we have this thing in [44:53] our society in the west where oh we have [44:56] to be reasonable about everything and so [45:00] they they measure the outrage uh and [45:04] they try to to to [45:07] paint it in a way that they always the [45:08] victims. We have seen this with uh you [45:10] know with how Hamas is painting itself [45:12] as a victim [45:14] and uh and they push the limit. So the [45:17] next time that they're going to do [45:18] something similar, you're used to it [45:20] already and you don't react as violently [45:24] as you did maybe the first time and then [45:26] when you become completely numb to it [45:28] because you have either given up or you [45:30] don't want to make a fuss and quite [45:31] often we do this in the west not make a [45:33] fuss then they do they do something else [45:35] and you see it through the way that they [45:37] conduct terrorist um terrorist acts. So [45:40] you know people will will do oh they [45:42] will think oh but it's been just one [45:43] stabbing it's one car car ramming so [45:46] only two people died only three people [45:47] died and then it becomes a daily [45:49] occurrence and so people become numb to [45:51] it and so the day that 10 people died [45:53] they're like oh but it's it's 10 because [45:55] they used to three four five what they [45:57] don't understand and what I don't [45:58] understand is that this I mean I do [46:01] understand that I don't understand how [46:02] they cannot life is sacred one person is [46:05] one person too many because an entire [46:08] universe is distinguished [46:09] And I'm thinking, so three people die. [46:11] It's not a big deal. Islam is not I [46:13] mean, you know, Islamic radicalism is [46:15] not so radical after all. Are you [46:16] kidding me? One person die, it's enough [46:19] to call it to call it a day. But for [46:21] people, they seem to think that no, [46:23] unless you have a full-on genocide, [46:26] then it's it's not the case. My argument [46:28] is this. It is a genocide because the [46:30] intent the intent is very directed that [46:33] they want to kill everyone who is not [46:35] them. That is in itself a genocide. I [46:38] don't care if one person died or 10. One [46:41] is one too many. And until we actually [46:43] get that and understand that we have to [46:44] do everything we can to protect life and [46:46] to protect the innocent. And I have said [46:49] it many times and I'm going to say it [46:50] again. The real innocent and please hear [46:53] me are those generations that have yet [46:55] to be born. We have to protect them. We [46:59] as people, as parents, as family [47:02] members, because you are you are someone [47:03] you know family, you need to protect our [47:06] future and the our children's future. [47:08] What kind of a world are they going to [47:10] inherit if mom and dad, you and I, are [47:13] not strong enough to say, "I will [47:15] swallow that darkness through you so you [47:17] don't have to because other battles will [47:19] come." But you're not going to have to [47:20] suffer mine because I was too cowardly [47:22] not to do it. [47:24] >> Well said. Where were you on October [47:26] 7th? And were you surprised by the [47:29] attack, Katherine? [47:30] >> I do, you know, I think I blanked it. I [47:34] can't I mean I remember that diet but I [47:35] can't remember the weeks that that came [47:38] after that. It's a complete I my brain [47:40] just switched off. I couldn't take it. [47:42] And I have to say cuz I remember my my [47:46] um my phone was going off and I couldn't [47:47] understand why. [47:50] And suddenly I saw there was a barge of [47:52] messages and and a friend of mine, [47:54] Rebecca, um was in Sanj and she told me [47:57] Israel is under attack and my stomach [48:00] sunk and I opened my phone and I think [48:04] that my soul my soul just left my body [48:06] that day. It really did. And I and I saw [48:08] those images like pouring and I remember [48:11] my kids coming into my room and I saw [48:13] you know that their their faces was [48:15] drained out of the blood and they didn't [48:17] know what to do and we just stood there [48:19] looking at like looking at each other [48:21] and it's just you know you suddenly turn [48:23] around and you realize that oh I was [48:25] crying and my it's like something [48:27] someone just like literally reached into [48:29] my chest and just crushed me and I have [48:32] lived through many things in my life but [48:34] I felt it and every time I talk about [48:37] I'm sorry I get emotional because I [48:39] really felt it. It's what they've done [48:42] to us. They just like I said it's like [48:45] someone like someone someone just [48:47] reached into me and to and took my heart [48:49] out of my chest and um I never got it [48:52] back and I just [48:54] that was the most horrific day for me [48:57] and I will never forget it. [48:59] >> Right. [49:00] Moving on to Kamas and Fatah [49:04] related to October 7th, of course. [49:07] >> Yes. [49:07] >> When people today talk about a two-state [49:10] solution, what do you want to tell them? [49:13] What do you want to share with them? [49:16] >> People won't like me. Um, [49:19] they have one. It's called Jordan. [49:22] I'm sorry but look [49:26] once upon a time there was a king who [49:29] was asked to do he had one task was to [49:31] uh to own the land that God had given to [49:33] his people [49:35] and Samaria part of that give it back [49:38] it's ours you want to exist somewhere [49:40] else that's fine you want to live in our [49:42] land peacefully that's fine I have zero [49:45] problem with it but it is the Jewish [49:47] state and it's for the Jews you want to [49:49] live among us you are welcome Uh, I will [49:52] even make you Shabbat dinner. You want [49:54] to touch my people, you want to harm my [49:56] children or someone else's children, I [49:59] will fight you until the day I die in my [50:01] last breath. And I won't apologize for [50:03] it. [50:07] >> When we were speaking the other day, you [50:10] used a term, the colonization of the [50:13] mind. [50:15] >> How people's minds have been so taken [50:18] over by propaganda. And I'm just [50:20] wondering when you speak to people that [50:24] have been colonized in their minds that [50:28] have these views that are uh completely [50:31] opposite, polar opposite from the truth. [50:34] Um those that are spouting the genocide [50:37] lie and the apartheid lie and the pick a [50:40] lie. How do you suggest engaging with [50:44] them? Hm. [50:46] H it's it's so difficult because they [50:49] caught up in this their own [50:50] self-righteousness. [50:52] They want to be right and they have [50:54] attached their ego to an ideology and [50:56] for them it is impossible to abandon it [50:58] and actually I don't know let the the [51:01] sun come in a little bit. [51:03] I don't know how to approach them. I [51:05] really don't because I have they have [51:07] circular arguments too. So, as they go [51:09] back to school, just learn how to [51:10] debate, read a book, uh open a window, [51:13] take a holiday, uh anything. Just stop [51:17] hating. And they will argue that I hate [51:20] them. It's not them. It's I hate their [51:22] ideas. I hate the fact that they want to [51:24] disappear people. I got a problem with [51:26] this because I should. You are calling [51:28] for my genocide. I'm not going to agree [51:30] with you or help you. Uh although some [51:32] people do, but you know, never mind. Uh [51:35] we won't talk about them. Uh how do you [51:38] engage with someone whose mind is so [51:39] closed off that they cannot see beyond [51:41] their own belly button that they feel [51:44] that they a victim of society that they [51:46] feel that you know should I offend them [51:48] it's the greater offense of the day if [51:50] you are breathing oxygen in your lung [51:53] yes you will suffer offense so what [51:56] you're not that special that you can [51:58] live through life thinking that the [52:00] world owes you something you're not that [52:02] special being narcissistic get off your [52:04] own head and just I don't No, think in [52:08] independent thoughts. Try to have [52:10] something that belongs to you because [52:11] you constructed it in your brain. Read a [52:14] book. Try to absorb the ideas and make [52:15] them your own. Stop believing people [52:18] just because they tell you that you're a [52:19] great victim of society. [52:21] >> Do your homework, in other words, is [52:22] what you're saying. Absolutely. [52:24] >> Like I said, go back to school, read a [52:26] book. [52:27] In the west, we had the left or we see [52:32] the left and their Jew hatred and the [52:34] anti-Israel. And on the right, we see [52:37] the same thing. And some people call it [52:38] a horseshoe. Some people call it just [52:40] one big circle. Doesn't matter if it's [52:43] the left or the right. And I'm just [52:44] wondering if you can weigh in. What are [52:45] your observations? I [52:47] >> agree. You know, like I would say the [52:49] the two joins the extremes. [52:51] >> Yeah, [52:52] >> they don't they don't know how you get [52:55] there. I I do and I've seen it. I've [52:57] seen people having those arguments. I've [52:58] seen people [53:00] desend into this darkness. I don't [53:02] understand that. And I don't want to I'm [53:04] going to stay on my happy boat. I'm just [53:06] >> You're going to stay on your happy boat. [53:10] >> Tell me which harbor that boat is in and [53:12] I'm jumping on the boat with you because [53:15] >> sometimes Yeah. Sometimes we just need [53:17] an escape, don't we? Listen, let me let [53:19] me tell me something. is someone that [53:22] travels a lot and I travel around the [53:24] world, [53:25] >> you can never escape it. I mean, last [53:27] year I was in Greenland and on my first [53:31] day I was in Nuke, the capital, and I [53:34] climbed up the little hill there to see [53:36] the statue of the founder of the the [53:39] Danish founder of Nuke. I thought, "Oh, [53:41] this is so wonderful." I look up at the [53:43] statue, and what do I see all over the [53:44] statue? But free Gaza stickers. [53:47] >> Oh, okay. And we're talking about in [53:50] Greenland for Pete's sakes. You know, I [53:52] was just in South Africa for example and [53:54] in Cape Town there was a little mini bus [53:56] and the whole thing was draped with a [53:59] kafia design and you know the freez and [54:02] the whole thing. I mean you go you go [54:04] everywhere. The people of South Africa [54:05] actually are very religious and and love [54:08] Jews. It's the ANC. It's the government. [54:10] So that's another story. But no matter [54:11] where you go I can go on and on about [54:13] places that I've been to really random [54:15] places and you see it. So you can never [54:21] in the Vatican last year when I saw the [54:23] images of you know they had like baby [54:25] Jesus with the kil and I'm thinking come [54:27] on now guys. [54:28] >> Yeah you can't escape it. [54:30] >> Yeah but it's becoming ridiculous. It's [54:32] becoming a cult. It's the cult but I'm [54:34] not I mean it's like the weird this [54:36] weird person personality or I don't know [54:39] what to call it because they claim a [54:41] nationality too. So I don't know to stop [54:44] it is the crazy train that has left the [54:46] station and is going very fast towards [54:49] nowhere. [54:50] >> Right. So let's talk just a little bit [54:52] about your work um in the UK to stop the [54:56] hate, to stop the anti-semitism. What [54:59] should we know and what are some of the [55:01] challenges that you're that you're [55:03] facing right now? Because I mean clearly [55:05] we see the attacks that have gone on in [55:07] the United Kingdom. It's it's it's [55:10] becoming I mean look you know many times [55:13] because I've um I' I've given lectures [55:16] you know uh throughout Europe and quite [55:19] often people are asking me oh should we [55:21] what do we do should we leave and [55:23] unfortunately when I see the the rise in [55:25] violence and everything I tend to say [55:27] yes you should and it's so difficult to [55:30] think that you know our diaspora could [55:33] disappear because we would have to go [55:35] home to Israel and it's a great thing [55:36] and I would encourage people to think [55:37] about doing Alani way. But at the same [55:41] time, our diaspora is our strengths, [55:42] too. Because for me, it's an extension [55:44] of Israel's presence, you know, even if [55:47] it's just cultural, it's important out [55:49] there in the world to defend our values [55:52] as Jews and to make sure that, you know, [55:54] Israel keeps us safe and we keep we keep [55:56] it safe. You know, it's a I think it's a [55:57] beautiful cycle. It's a great balance. [55:59] It's the way it works. And I'm proud to [56:02] be part of this community for sure. I [56:04] just like people to um to get off our [56:07] backs and stop hating us for existing [56:08] when we are giving so much back to the [56:11] world. I mean, at the height of of its [56:14] war for survival, Israel still managed [56:17] to grow, I mean, in strength and to have [56:20] several medical breakthrough. And I'm [56:21] like, come on, you guys. Like, what? And [56:23] they want a boycott.
